I have a saito 220 that I have a couple of questions about. First It won't Idle below 3000 rpm without the igniter on. It has about 4 gallons of fuel through it most of them on the ground cuz it is scary having to dead stick 90% of your landings. I try to lean it down on the bottom end but I get to a point and it just starts to run rough and die if I go any leaner than that it will just die and then won't start again until I richen it up. When I transition to full it pours smoke out like it is to rich. And runs like it is loaded up. Once it clears out it will run great. it will Idle down nice for a few seconds and then it will just die, no warning nothing it is idling fine and blah just stops. Any help would be great.

Next question is I read on the net that this engine should turn 9-10000 rpm I don't believe it cuz this engine only gets about 5500 with a 20x6 prop. But it pulls hard and flys my ultimate bipe beautifully. If only it would idle. Oh yeah is it supposed to spin more rrs?

This one will be interesting.

STO,
What fuel? Nitro content? Oil content? Type of plug? Flying on odd or even days of the week? ( Forget the last one.... Just pulling your leg!) How about the prop brand? Wood glass or carbon? How old is the fuel? Air tight container? RPMs sound a bit low and the smoky issue sounds a bit strange but tell us the above so we can get a starting point.
WT

wow

Originally Posted by krayzc

wow

Wow? I guess so on the wow! How can a Saito run that bad?
WT

Wood prop Zinger 20x6. OS plug Type F. Sig Champion fuel 30% nitro 24% synthetic oil. Just recieved at the lhs on Wed I picked up a case on Thurs. When new I ran 2 gallons of Sig Champion 15% nitro with 16% oil 1/2 castor 1/2 synthetic four stroke blend. It since has had just about 2 gallons of the first fuel specified.

I had the same sort of symptoms when I ran a wood prop on a Saito. Not saying it can't be done but if you used say like an APC or Master Airscrew or anything carbon fiber, it will idle better. Some of the wood props don't have the weight needed to idle properly. Try it..... Everything else seems okay. You can get by on 15% nitro and it will be fine also. The first fuel has a bunch of oil and that is what is giving you all the smoke.
WT

Originally Posted by stommerd27

Wood prop Zinger 20x6. OS plug Type F. Sig Champion fuel 30% nitro 24% synthetic oil. Just recieved at the lhs on Wed I picked up a case on Thurs. When new I ran 2 gallons of Sig Champion 15% nitro with 16% oil 1/2 castor 1/2 synthetic four stroke blend. It since has had just about 2 gallons of the first fuel specified.

Here are some thoughts...

First, change the plug. If it's the same plug you used to break the motor in then it's probably contaminated with tiny metal particles that are produced during that break-in process and it will therefore have beome very *cold*.

Second, have you checked and set the valve-lash? There's often quite a significant opening of the valve-gaps during the first hour or two of running as all the hi-spots are worn down and things bed-in. A Saito with excessive valve-lash will run like a pig.

I'm not sure how well the big Saitos respond to nitro but generally nitro works better on smaller engines than large ones. Try some lower-nitro fuel and see if it runs better.

Also, 24% oil is way too much for an engine this size! The combination of hi-nitro and hi-oil could be much of your problem. Try going back to some of that Sig Champion fuel if you've got some left and see what difference that makes.

We run our Saitos on a fuel with just 10% nitro and 12% of Cooper's Plus C synth/castor oil -- they run like a Swiss watch on that mix. And what ever fuel you use, make sure it has 2-3% castor in it otherwise you'll be changing bearings before the season is out.

You might also try a heavier prop.

Saitos are a very light engine and some of them (my 100 for example) runs like a pig with a lightweight prop. It sounds like it's detonating, won't idle well and simply doesn't produce good RPMs with such a light prop. Throw something a little heavier on however and it becomes a whole new engine.

if you've got a heavier prop around, try it -- you might be surprised.

And don't expect to get 9K-10K out of a 20x6 prop, I don't think the Saito has that much grunt (although I could be wrong).

You won't get 9K-10K out of a 45cc 2-stroke gas engine on a 20x6 so how on earth a 35cc 4-stroke could do better I don't know. Also, the combination of too large a prop, too much nitro and too much oil could be contributing to detonation -- and not only will it make your engine run like shiRt, it will also comletely stuff your expensive new Saito in no time at all.

I think Mr. XJet has put what I said very eloquently! The man knows his Saitos! (So..... If you did what we said, how's that baby running now??)
WT

Saito 220 = $499 - 20/20 fuel = $26/gal - 10 flights a gallon (1 week) - 52 weeks = $1352 total $1851
DA-50 = priceless

I have a Saito 220 on a Hanger 9 Edge: had to go with on board glow to keep it lit when low and slow. I gave up trying to analyze the thing and bought the glow system: problem solved.

Steve

I tried going back to my break in fuel. And changed to a 19x8 apc prop. Rechecked the valves. I had already adjusted them after the first 2 gallons. They were still ok. It maybe slowed down 500 rpm before it dies now. If I leave the igniter on it runs great. So I am thinking the onboard system might be the way to go. I had thought about that before I posted this thread. My thought was maybe being mounted inverted has something to do with it and that it needed the extra heat due to the fuel landing right on the plug as it enters the cylinder.

Any other ideas would be a great help.

I have one..
the book says no less then 20% oil and 10-30% nitro
is the fuel you are useing 100% synthetic ?
Mine only has 1.5 hours on a stand and I have not touched the idle and the main is over 2 turns out still. If I go below 2200 with no heat it will die. and at 2200 it sounds like it would idle all day at that with no heat. plug is the stock saito plug that it came with.
The break in fuel that i am useing is 15% nitro and 20% oil (100% synthetic)
I pulled close to 7200 with the main needle with a 18x12 apc and its still quite rich.
I would try a tank of some different fuel. it would not be the first time i have heard of a bad batch of fuel.
when you first ran it did you follow the book?
ie 5 turns out and no more then 4000 rpm for the first ten minites?
if it does not clear up i would send it back with a detailed letter of the problems
mine has so much compression already, its very hard to turn it over by the prop hub.
I have read on some forums of guys haveing idle problems but not low power problems.
also read that some guys were dremeling the barrel a little to let more air in.
I would send it back before doing something like that.

On board glow system solved all problems. I only had an idle problem, no power problems. I followed the book to a T. I have many saito engines and the only other one that was a little stubborn on breakin was my 82. It took about 3 gallons of fuel before she was reliable. The rest 91, 125, 56, 65 all ran great within a half gallon. I run 30% nitro with 22% full synthetic after initial breakin in all of my saitos. They love it.

Thanks to all for the help. But my glow engine planes are all sold or getting sold now. I am going all gas and electric.

Originally Posted by bobzilla

Saito 220 = $499 - 20/20 fuel = $26/gal - 10 flights a gallon (1 week) - 52 weeks = $1352 total $1851
DA-50 = priceless

I had a 220 on a sebart funtana-140 flying shows for a season.Wat an engine
Loads o grunt- tickover was gunslinger low but the economy was a bit on the sloppy side of life Was spinning a masterairscrew 18/6 with no troubles. Except the threads on the exaust outlet failed so had to replace the entire barrel after waiting for 2 month for it to arrive from japan Had a Da 50 in a wildhare during the same season and i spent no were near as much on fuel or bandages The 220 sure kicks like a mule in a back fire i only use Petrol engines now