I have a simulator but wondered the best way to learn doing rolls without diving into the ground. Would a Yak 30 be a good plane selection to practice with? Thanks Ron

What simulator, and what kind of roll? Many planes tend to start diving after a while of rolling from partially the cg being forward, and no front support in the knife edge position. If it is Phoenix, I've had trouble practicing rolling circles just because most of the foamies fly weird from the strange physics they used to make that sim, although I think v3-4 of that sim are way more realistic than realflight 6.5 or less (I have not tried higher).

Originally Posted by Nutball

What simulator, and what kind of roll? Many planes tend to start diving after a while of rolling from partially the cg being forward, and no front support in the knife edge position. If it is Phoenix, I've had trouble practicing rolling circles just because most of the foamies fly weird from the strange physics they used to make that sim, although I think v3-4 of that sim are way more realistic than realflight 6.5 or less (I have not tried higher).

I have the phoenix 5 and trying to do a continuous roll using the Yak 30. Thanks Ron

Try starting off doing slow rolls. You will have more time to react and input the necessary stick movements to obtain straight and level flight.

Ron, to get started just bump a little down elevator when the plane is inverted. This will help hold altitude during the roll. To keep the roll level or if you slow the roll rate down you will need to start adding rudder when the plane is in knife edge but for now keep the roll rate fairly quick (about 1 second per roll) and just bump in some down elevator when inverted. I would suggest you set a rate in your sim so that you can just bang the aileron stick all the way to the stop to get the required roll rate. This way you can hold the stick to the right (or left) and just concentrate on the elevator inputs. BTW, A truly axial, level and straight slow roll across the horizon is one of the hardest maneuvers to do.

IMO, starting with a slow roll is much harder because you have to include rudder but I'm 100% self taught so my methods may be a little off track. Take it with a grain of salt!

Thanks all
I did get to do some knife edge and inversion yesterday on the sim. I don't know if I can set rate on the Phoenix 5. At least I know I need Rudder Elevator and aileron to do rolls. I will continue on the sim today. Thanks Ron

Damn, I thought we were talking breakfast rolls!

You can also turn down the simulator "physics" speed if I recall. Set it to .5 speed versus 1.0 to slow it all down.

You can set rates on a switch in Phoenix 5. I set up a specific rate on my DX18 just for learning rolling circles. It was a while ago though and I hate using the sim so can't tell you how I did it.

I thought the simulator was great until I could fly helicopters and planes well, now it is miserable trying to practice with such poor realism compared to real life, so I'm selling mine today.

I use Real Flight 7.5 and I think it's pretty close. A top pattern flier told me to work on slow rolls because they are the foundation for a lot of manuevers. Once you're comfortable with them you're on your way!

Originally Posted by bruce leach

I use Real Flight 7.5 and I think it's pretty close. A top pattern flier told me to work on slow rolls because they are the foundation for a lot of manuevers. Once you're comfortable with them you're on your way!

I'm trying to do rolls but on the PHOENIX 5 using a Yak 30. It is working out and can now fly accross the sky doing 4 point rolls or 180 degree rolls but don't have a smooth roll without a pause between the 180 knife edge (about 1 second). Anyone can do a roll but to manage to use rudder and aileron and elevator on one is the big problem.I hope I'll get faster and smooth out the roll to be complete 360 degrees continuous as I travel. Any suggestions would be great! Thanks Ron

Originally Posted by Darticus

I'm trying to do rolls but on the PHOENIX 5 using a Yak 30. It is working out and can now fly accross the sky doing 4 point rolls or 180 degree rolls but don't have a smooth roll without a pause between the 180 knife edge (about 1 second). Anyone can do a roll but to manage to use rudder and aileron and elevator on one is the big problem.I hope I'll get faster and smooth out the roll to be complete 360 degrees continuous as I travel. Any suggestions would be great! Thanks Ron

There are no short cuts to the finish line.

You need to just put in the stick time. Practice, practice practice. Then practice some more

Originally Posted by Darticus

I'm trying to do rolls but on the PHOENIX 5 using a Yak 30. It is working out and can now fly accross the sky doing 4 point rolls or 180 degree rolls but don't have a smooth roll without a pause between the 180 knife edge (about 1 second). Anyone can do a roll but to manage to use rudder and aileron and elevator on one is the big problem.I hope I'll get faster and smooth out the roll to be complete 360 degrees continuous as I travel. Any suggestions would be great! Thanks Ron

The secret to doing smooth continuous rolls is to develop a stick "stir" by muscle memory. For this stir, you will be wiggling the left stick sideways, and the right stick up and down. You will need to coordinate the two sticks with each other, and with what the airplane is doing. There is one stir for left rolls, another stir for right rolls. To start the sequence out correctly, just move the two sticks in opposite directions (apply rudder opposite the roll direction). You will need to vary the timing, lead or lag, to keep the nose up and in sync with the roll rate. It all seems overwhelming and nearly impossible at first, but it gets easier with practice, so keep at it!


As suggested in the post above, start out with a roll rate that you can bang the stick to the stops. As you get more practice, you will be able to modulate a higher roll rate, rather than maxing it out.