I think it is a great shame that this event has been cancelled. I was at Cosford in 2010 in the UK - they have around 25,000 people attend this event as spectators. It is run as a true airshow, the flightline is highly controlled and the British Large Model Association has their own testing and certification process to test every pilot before they can fly at a public display - this would seem to be the type of process that the CAS Regs contemplate. It is almost impossible to do as a "fly in" style event - unless you took the view that a heavy model certification was satisfactory evidence of the pilots ability to fly the relevant plane for the certified manuevers - this would seem to be a reasonable solution as the Heavy Model test does test the plane and the pilot for a set of manuevers.

I lied - THIS is (probably) my last post on the subject

READ

CASR Part 101 section 4.2

Then Read

MAAA MOP 019 Section 7.6

Tell me if you see any difference.

Originally Posted by Hogboy

I think it is a great shame that this event has been cancelled. I was at Cosford in 2010 in the UK - they have around 25,000 people attend this event as spectators. It is run as a true airshow, the flightline is highly controlled and the British Large Model Association has their own testing and certification process to test every pilot before they can fly at a public display - this would seem to be the type of process that the CAS Regs contemplate. It is almost impossible to do as a "fly in" style event - unless you took the view that a heavy model certification was satisfactory evidence of the pilots ability to fly the relevant plane for the certified manuevers - this would seem to be a reasonable solution as the Heavy Model test does test the plane and the pilot for a set of manuevers.

That is absolutely the crux of the matter - We have lost a great event and it was unnecessarily so. Not all models that would have been flown at that event were Heavy models. In fact the roots of the event were to do with Scale models. (but the large pylon racers are cool too)

I was only going there as a spectator. Now I have to find some other interesting event to go watch. (anyone coming here for the Nats?)

Originally Posted by aussiesteve

I lied - THIS is (probably) my last post on the subject

READ

CASR Part 101 section 4.2

Then Read

MAAA MOP 019 Section 7.6

Tell me if you see any difference.

Not sure what Part of 101 you are refering to as it doesn't get divided into sections in that manner. Part 101.410 is the relevant section regarding public displays. My point is that it doesn't matter what MAAA says in the MOPS so far as liability of the CD is concerned you are stuck with the law.

From CASR Part 101 (AC 101-3)

4.2 It is the responsibility of the operator of a model aircraft to ensure that the model is flown safely and in accordance with the regulations.



and now for the wording that triggered this whole circumstance - In fact the main paragraph that was changed in the MOP update.



From the MAAA MOP 019

7.6 The Organiser/Club Secretary/ Display Director is responsible for ensuring that:
(a) Having considered the types of flying making up the Display, proper
precautions are taken to ensure the safety of the participants and spectators.
These precautions shall be detailed in the submission and/or shown in the
plans of the display area.
(b) The operators participating in the Display are competent to carry out the
proposed display manoeuvres safely.

And for those who think a comp is not a Display - below is a further paste from the MOP 019 Definitions page.

Advertising of a Comp - in a public forum could be constituted as it being a display. It is all about what the sentence brings IF it gets tested in a court (and hopefully it never will be) - THAT is not good for comp organisers - kinda hard for pilots to know about the comp if they cant advertise it.
It really doesn't affect me - The only time I go to any comps is as a spectator to watch a couple of pilots whom I supply planes to (out of my interest in the hobby - not for any commercial interest).





Competition

…………………. A competition run by a Club, State Association or the

MAAA and open to members of other Clubs and/or
Associations but not promoted to the general public.
Large competitions, such as World Championships,
where it would be reasonably expected that members
of the public will attend, shall be treated as a Display.

Display

………………………… An organised Display of any type of model aircraft

flying (including Control Line model aircraft and indoor
flying) conducted in front of non-MAAA Affiliate
Members

Display (Part 101 type)

……… A Display, which is covered by the provisions of CAR

(1998) Part 101 i.e. outdoors and including radio and/or
free flight models

Originally Posted by aussiesteve

From CASR Part 101 (AC 101-3)

4.2 It is the responsibility of the operator of a model aircraft to ensure that the model is flown safely and in accordance with the regulations.



and now for the wording that triggered this whole circumstance - In fact the main paragraph that was changed in the MOP update.



From the MAAA MOP 019

7.6 The Organiser/Club Secretary/ Display Director is responsible for ensuring that:
(a) Having considered the types of flying making up the Display, proper
precautions are taken to ensure the safety of the participants and spectators.
These precautions shall be detailed in the submission and/or shown in the
plans of the display area.
(b) The operators participating in the Display are competent to carry out the
proposed display manoeuvres safely.

OK, I see where you are going wrong. You are quoting the advisory circular which you will see at the front of the document is merely "guidance". It is not actaully of any legal significance. You need to read the actual regs. I don't argue that its not the primary responsibility is on the operator to fly safely. But it is also up to the CD to make sure that they have the ability to operate the plane safely. Have a read of the actual regs - Part 101.410 - ie the section actually quoted by the MAAA in the PDF.

It is not I who is "going wrong" - I was not involved in the organising nor the cancellation of the event. I simply made the mistake of giving a damn about it happening and asked an opinion on the wording of the MOP under which it would have been run then postihg a comment here - at my age, I should have known better.

I do not care less - my interest in this hobby has been waning for quite a while, I have no commercial interest in it other than the money I have spent on my toys in my shed and am unlikely to ever have any greater interest in it in the future as there are other hobbies that are more attractive to my grandchildren. Whatever happens will happen

Now can this thread please go back to discussing the IMAC scene and the general trivial backslapping that it normally does?

I am out of here.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze Richo can no one take a hint !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perfect subject change then they back like a bad smell

Originally Posted by basman

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze Richo can no one take a hint !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perfect subject change then they back like a bad smell

C'mon Brian, no one has even referred to Hitler or the Nazis yet - thats normally how all great internet debates are determined.

OK back to the usual intellectual banter... try this one out....

Is it true that DLE were the first to use a two stroke engine in a model airplane?

Howabout this one... Sanwa's 2.4 gig system is a million times better then JR or Futaba...

Spot on Basman, start your own forum for haveing a wingeing debate chaps,Iam quite happy to be a CD, my place my rules
MOVE ON

Originally Posted by TROYS PIT-BITCH

Yeah but I live central Wagga

You mean to tell me that wagga has expanded.......???

Originally Posted by lee1093

Spot on Basman, start your own forum for haveing a wingeing debate chaps,Iam quite happy to be a CD, my place my rules
MOVE ON

Happilly Lee, it is unlikely that being CD at an IMAC comp is going to require you to comply with the MOP for a "public display" so you won't need to deal with this crap.

This will be my last post for today because "I am going Flying"

WaaaaHooooo!!!!!!

Yeah bogan we'are trying to pay for school rebuilds, insulation schemes, detention centres, carbon taxes and the like to name a few and all us tax payers need to keep a shoulder to the wheel at the moment. hope fully this situation will ease next year and we would love to come over to your Rumble.?????????????????????????