ANOTHER aeroworks knock off...

[aviti]

I don't understand why everyone worries about who copies who or who designed what. Very few of us know anything close the the real stories. Even if you know one side, there is always two sides to every story. I 'm not saying copying is OK, but if you don't know the entire story, how can you say who is copying who? How do you know one of the popular ARF's sold my a US company isn't actually a Chinese design that was sold to them? Why not let the companies involved figure that stuff out?

I choose to pay a little more for stuff to make sure there is a reputable company to stand behind the product. But we are talking about model ariplanes. There is clearly a market for lower priced models that are of a similar if not same design. You wanna take your chances to save a few hundred bucks, then fine. I don't typically do this but I really wouldn't knock a plane completely before owning it.

No one worries about this type of stuff when they are buying regular household items. "Wait a minute here, I think that gas can I just bought is a Chinese clone of the ABC US owned company's gas can." How many of us buy stuff made in China every day with no idea or regard for who designed it?? Almost everyone. But when it's a model aircraft, then the ethics committee comes out in all of us.

You really wanna know for sure who designed and built your airplane? Then scratch build it yourself. If you do a good job, somebody will copy you but at least you know for sure it was your design.

[torquen]

	Quote: Originally Posted by kolarshooter
	Yup. You kids are amazing..."A cheap Chinese knock off" of a Chinese airplane!?!? You guys probably won't beleive this, but China isn't a country with coast-to-coast slave labor shops cranking-out copies of better-known Chinese RC model airplanes The planes we see in our "interest group" (3D, IMAC) are engineered and built in China in only a very few modern, well-equipped factories. For example...does anyone think that Rocco at Aeroworks, or QQ actually OWNS a model airplane factory? Labor is expensive here (and Oz) as are engineers, so engineering and construction happen there. They have test flyers who are very capable and would shame most of us...particularly those of you who see the Chinese as living in rice swamps with e-xacto knives whittling out airplane parts. Do I have issues with China and the US and how we trade? You bet! But pointing your finger at a product and flaming it because it's Chinese makes us sound like teenagers without a clue (which some of you may, in fact, be). Except for Comp-Arf (and their Composite neighbors) in Thailand, virtually any 3D-IMAC ARF plane you glorify was built in a modern , state of the art factory using technology "borrowed/stolen" from Europe and the US...I guess you could say this shows good judgement on their part. You might have a well-known RC personality pimping one plane or another, and that person can claim to have "designed" it, which may be true if we use a pretty liberal interpretation of the word "design." Aeroworks: Chinese Extreme Flight: Chinese QQ: Chinese AM/TOC/SD-TBM: Chinese Until you want to spend $2000.00+ for a US-made 100cc AW QB ARF (which might be of lower qualitythan you're getting now,) then buying from the Chinese is just something we need to hold our noses and do. The upside (if there is one) is that we, the consumers (and so, the importers like AW, QQ, etc.), are demanding higher and higher quality in our planes, so the manufacuters are responding. The plane in the e-bay ads is an SD ARF. It comes with a canopy (duh) and is built in the same factory as the SD and TOC (or whatever they will call themselves next) models as well as others. Same lasercutting, CNC machines, same wood, same glue, etc. The covering on this plane is said to be ultracote. If you actually ask the e-bay sellers for some info, they will not admit that it's an SD, (obviously they have licensing agreements which prevent them from saying so,) but the instruction manual they sent me is the same as the SD manual I downloaded from TBM...I mean exactly the same pics, words, typos, etc...just a different cover sheet. Funny, Aeroworks had a pretty "iffy" rep not that long ago, Extreme Flight 50cc Yak had structural issues as I recall, and QQ's Gen1 100cc Yak had wing problems, HOWEVER: I've never heard of any structural issues with the TOC-SD planes...AND THAT'S WHAT THE E-BAY GUYS ARE SELLING! Some of you guys are amazing. Happy New Year

Kolar, you are wrong on the subject that the planes on ebay are made from the factory that is owned by SD. When SD first started building giant planes one of the Autocad guys left the factory and also took a few of the rough layouts on autocad with him. This company on ebay is actually using our manuals and I have wrote them stating they are. I dont know the quality of these planes at all since they are not produced from SD. So please dont run around thinking you know these planes come out of each factory of your choice. There are hundreds of factories in China building planes. Not just 3.
Garrett Morrison

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	BTW whats the difference between between china cote and ultracote as long it is already covered!! And what planes come with already installed hinges????? Every one of em needs to be installed by the owner!!!

Chinakote doesn't stay stuck down at all, colors are inconsistant, and it's not as shiny or as tough. All Aeroworks QB series come prehinged/glued, except the rudder for shipping purposes. Cheap ARF companies will use the cheapes stuff they can to get a product out. I have seen more than a couple "cheap" ARFs fold or bend a wingtube mid-air.
I am sorry if I sounded arguementative. I was just emphasizing that this plane, in no way, compares to the real Aeroworks plane, and buying one would not be like buying an Aeroworks plane at half-price.

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	You wanna take your chances to save a few hundred bucks, then fine. I don't typically do this but I really wouldn't knock a plane completely before owning it.

My point was not to knock the plane. It was to show that this plane was in no way an Aeroworks knockoff . If anything, it is an SD-model knockoff (all questions concerning quality aside).

	Quote:
	does anyone think that Rocco at Aeroworks, or QQ actually OWNS a model airplane factory?

No, but they are playing their cards right. They chose one of the "few" manufacturers out there and made darn sure they kept the production/quality demand up enough that the manufacturer wouldn't have time to build some for themselves or other people and take credit for it. That's probably why there are no "true" Aeroworks knockoffs. And QQ placed such large orders that that manufacturer stopped building planes for another ARF company just to keep up. And SD-model now has their own US based importer to maintain exclusivity - also smart.

[JeeUm]

Look at this beauty. I especially love the backwards wheelpants. I guess it's supposed to be an extra.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Extra-300-14...QQcmdZViewItem

[SleepyC]

Well. By the end of the week we will know exactly what kind of plane these Harris & Anderson 35%'ers are.

A buddy wanted to move up to 35%, and this is the plane he choose.
I'll be picking it up from forward air, and assembling it for him. Not any time soon (I have to finish my Dalton) but when i pick it up, I'll post some pictures and thoughts.

He got the YAK. So we will see.

[bodywerks]

Yeah, do you really want to buy a plane from someone that doesn't even know which way the wheelpants are supposed to point, LOL!!!???

[1bwana1]

I guess not all Chinese companies are bad to deal with. Yesterday I posted about the failure of my RCLeague YAK 54 in a snap. I emailed a report to the company in China. They responded promptly and acknowleged that they had made some changes to the model to avoid this issue. They are sending a new one free, including shipping. We all know that even some of the better known companies here in the U.S. have had similar issues with first release models. In order to protect their reputation they usually find a way to make their customers happy. It looks like RC League uderstands this and is doing their best to offer good service. I would like to point out the RC League is NOT the company selling on E-Bay. I have no experience with them.

The ad with the wheel pants backwards is just too funny....

-STEVE-

[bob101]

Let's be honest, some of the companies named in this thread that import planes from China into th eUS aren't exactly known for customer service either.

There are 3 sides to this story and the others you read like them. Few know, and those who do know aren't talking. I'm guessing for a variety of reasons like one company doesn't want it known that it's planes are coming from the same exact factory as it's competitor and other reasons.

Look at other areas besides R/C. Imported machinery from Taiwan and China is often branded under 10 different companies with different paint schemes and a small change here and there but it's all from the same factory. Some even require a better QC on the item. I'm guessing it happens in R/C as well. Two planes built in the same factory - one for a client who won't accept poor workmanship and the other that gets the house brand name.

[maeu2003]

Sleepy I will be waiting for your findings. Truthfully I don't care who makes a product. If it works good, flys well, or runs fine I don't care who makes it. my $.02.

[SleepyC]

	Quote:
	Sleepy I will be waiting for your findings.

Me too!

[adrian]

me also!!

[atique]

Yea

[Dennis C]

me 2

[SleepyC]

Ok.. went to Forward Air on my lunch and snagged the 35% Bootleg YAK.

So far so good...

I can't believe it but so far this plane was packaged the best of any plane I have ever received. It had a outer box, with a card board crate inside it with another box inside of that. I only had a few minutes and was barly able to crack open the inner box...

Everything seems to be in good shape.... this sucker is HUGE...

I snaked the cowl out of the box and its of good quality with a cowl ring!

The paint job is "OK".. has a few "spots" of dimply paint... but over all not too freaking bad.

I'll have a full report when I get home.