Wing rocking during harriers??

[Bobbydog]

Hey everyone,

I am a fairly new pilot to the 3D planes and I'm having some trouble keeping the wings from rocking back and forth during my so called harriers. I'm practicing on a Airfoilz Yak. Is this something that I just have to counter with the ailerons/rudder or is there maybe something I dont have set up right? Anyhoo, just thought someone might have had the same problem and has already found the solution. I am also finding the harriers much harder than the hovers. Is this right? I can do two torque rolls without falling off to one side fairly easily but the damn harriers are tough!! Any input on this would be great. Thanks in advance.

Bob

[MrKiwi]

You may be getting the plane too slow, and try laterally balancing the plane. Good luck!

[Jaybird]

Be quick on the sticks and just keep batting the high wing down. Maybe try a little spoileron to kill some lift.

[hercdriver7777]

Some planes will harrier without rock some wont. Changing your Cg toward the rear may help. One thing that definitely makes them look better is too keep them in a turn (i.e. with the rudder), like in a figure eight. One of the things you see in the vids all the time is people entering from an elevator (Full up/max sink) to a harrier turn. The turn reduces the wing rock.

[Ryguy]

Try reflexing both ailerons up just about a sixteenth of an inch. If that doesn't help, try adding in some washout at the tips.

[Bobbydog]

Thanks for the input everyone. Theres a bunch of things there to try. I'm sure that I'll figure er out sooner or later. I dont give up easy! Peace.

Bob

[3D-Seth]

Some planes rock in a harrier, and some wont but that all depends on the airframe. My 2.3m Comp-ARF Extra 330L will rock some upright, but none inverted.

Normally when the wings rock, the plane has a smidge of lift and it wants to make it tip stall - the "wing wagging". So you may want to try this - slow the plane down more so that you get rid of whats left of the lift. Also to do this you can do spoilerons just as ryguy and jaybird said too - this dumps the rest of the lift off of the wings.

There is a "sweet spot" to every plane with the elevator, but this changes per airframe.

Hope this helps!!

[TimDavie]

Jaybird is right. some rock more than others. just keep working the ailerons. It's a constant juggling act.

[Black Bird]

With the extremely light wing loading of your yak, it will be almost impossible to stop the wing rocking during a harrier. This is one situation where higher wing loading would make this manuver easier to do. Putting yourself in a deeper stall may correct it, but as soon as begin forward moment or when the nose drops, the wings will start to create lift.
This may be too much information, but someone may appreciate a little extra information into what actually is going on in a harrier. As mentioned earlier, a harrier is a full stalled thrust vectored manuver. The key words are fully stalled. The term stall only refers to the fact that the wings are producing insufficient lift to maintain a certain altitude. Relative wind is always opposit and parralel to the flight path. The wings never stop producing lift accept during nife edge flight, torque rolls , and hovers which are fully stalled thrust vectored maneuvers that are performed when your airspeed is zero. Positive roll dampening is built into the stability of the aircraft. When ever the wing drops, the relative wind is not only striking the front of the wing but also hitting the bottom of the wing. This create a resultant relative wind that increases the angle of attack on the low wing. This incresed anle of attack causes the dropping wing to produce more lift than the high wing. Angle of attack is the angle between the wind chord and the relative wind. This angle determines how much lift the wing creates. At the crictical angle of attack, the amount of lift produced by the wings decreases as the angle of attck increases( usually when x > 30degrees)--negative roll dampening. The increased angle of attack causes the dropping to produce more lift than the high wing. This positive roll dampening causes the plane to want to return to it's original position. As you can conceptualize, this action recycles itself on the high wing as it start to drop because of the low wing creating lift. It will drop until it starts to create more lift. This is the wing rock that you are referring to. It is pretty much inevitable for you to have wing rock.
Wing rocking also comes from turbulent airflow from the wings flowing over the elevators causing them to stall intermittantly in the absence of air pressure. But that is another flight lesson.
A trick that I learned similar to what 7777 said, is to add little rudder and counter with ailerons to keep the wings level. In Jason Shulman's video on how to 3D, his recommends trying to catch it on the down rock with rudder and opposite aileron. Be very careful because this is a snap input, so be cautious on the controls. When you are using this cross-control which is similar to a slip, you are tricking one wing into producing more lift. YOu are countering with rudder to stop roll.

I understand this is maybe more than what you were looking for, but I fill that it is important to understand aerodynamicaly what is going on. Long story short, it may not be your skills, but the static stability and positive dynamic stability built into the aircraft.

Good luck, and keep challenging your skills

[yaks]

if the elevators have different end point you will have wing rocking,,,

[Jaybird]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bird
	With the extremely light wing loading of your yak, it will be almost impossible to stop the wing rocking during a harrier....... It is pretty much inevitable for you to have wing rock. ...

Sorry but I totally disagree.
Brian

[flybye]

if anything a light wing loading helps because the less mass in the wing the less controll you have to use to correct wing rock. the less controll used and the less of a chance you will have of over reacting and start the rocking all over again

[andywynn]

I found with foamies you need to pull the nose to a higher angle of attack than you so with the higher wing loading planes, provided the plane is balanced ccorrectly. I would start by checking the balance laterally first. Then pull the nose to high alpha, you will need more power but it should stop the rock.

[Bobbydog]

I'm getting it. I ran down a half dozen lipos yesterday and its getting better and better all the time. Like you guys said there is a sweet spot with the elevator and throttle and angle of attack and etc and etc... It just takes time I guess.

Andywynn, that is one funny avatar!! Omg too funny.

I'm not sure how to properly set the lateral balance. I put two nails two feet apart on my workbench and then set the plane down on them right on the bottom of the fuselage. It seems like the plane falls off to one side one time then the other way the next. What is the proper way to do this? Thanks everyone.

Bob

[wizard]

One way to check the lateral balance is to use a string around the prop shaft and another threaded between the rudder and stab below the top hinge. Support the plane by the strings. This allows you to see the balance and have the plane in a constant state. Then you can just add weight to the high wing.