FlyingGiants Exclusive! Introducing The Futaba 12FG, Modules & More!

[JEFFRO503]

sorry...should have posted this question with my reply above.......


Guys.....where would be a good place to start as far as pre-ordering one of these items? Horizon? From another post on this thread , it looked like the 12FG will be around $1200.00 is that about correct? Doesn't seem that bad. Wondering if i need that high end of a radio , or shoukd i invest in a used 9Z and get the moduel. You guys think that if a 9Z was upgraded with the moduel it would still work ok as far as spektrum "speed" of sending signals to the airplane. I'm not sure of the disadvantages of swapping a regular 72mgz radio over to spektrum.

can i get some advice?


Jeff

[Marty]

Awesome news.

[toprudder]

Now there are three players in the 2.4ghz market. Competition will only make things better for us.

I agree with others that I would rather use a module for my radio that is made by the same company that made my radio. If there are any compatibility issues, who better to address them in the first place! I have 5 module based Futaba radios. Nuff said.

Unless the other module makers can decipher the 2048 G3 PCM, they have to use PPM. Adding more channels to the PPM pulse train will only make the latency worse. Each pulse in the PPM train adds a nominal 1.5ms to the PPM frame length, that is why you don't see many (any??) PPM systems with more than 8 channels. In fact, one radio that I am aware of allowed the transmitted channels to be programmed, which decreased the latency - great for pylon racers that only need 4 channels and want to bank-n-yank as quickly as possible! Going from 8 to 12 channels will roughly increase the latency by 50%. If this is the only way to get some 2.4ghz modules to work with my 12 channel radio, sorry, I won't buy it.

All the 2.4ghz options actually make our existing radios a little better. With all the guys rushing to get 2.4ghz systems, the 72mhz airwaves will be a little less cluttered. Sure, 72mhz will still be prone to shoot-downs, but with fewer radios on 72mhz the chances of that happening will decrease. We will also have to wait for the frequency pin less often now.

I will get one 2.4ghz module when it is available, but I won't be dumping all my 72mhz stuff right away, I have too many receivers on 72. I don't see any reason to make a mad rush to get rid of them.

Bob R.

[MalaysianFlyer]

Although I am a JR man, I have to give credit to Futaba, they really pulled it off this time. All modules for all models, and new 12 channel radio to boot. And they had to launch it now, right smack before the release of the JR 12X scheduled for May!!! As much as I hate to admit this... Good marketing, they will have cornered the market for the 12 channel radios.

I bet they also come out with a 16 channel 2048 2.4ghz radio before October 2007!!! Coz thats when the JR 16 channel is scheduled to be released!!!!

Maybe I will have to change caps and wear Futaba now instead!!!!

[MalaysianFlyer]

Anyone know if the 14mz module will also work on the FX-40??

[JEFFRO503]

This is some great advice TOPRUDDER......thanks for putting it into some kind of lamens terms for me. I don't quite understand how alot of this stuff works , but i think i understand what you are saying. The more channels you have going/or in operational use makes the latencey really bad , because it must read all the channels at once correct? So.......with every channel added , the latencey get's worse and worse. I guess it's how they we're designed a few months back , but now with the newer futaba stuff coming out , they seemd to have fixed the latencey problems with the higher channel radios , like the 12Z and 14Z is that right?

Just out of curiousity.....What would happen if you put two futaba's head to head for speed/latencey , with one being a futaba 12Z/with new futaba fasst moduel and the new futaba 12G , which one would be quicker.......or would they be the same speed?

	Quote: Originally Posted by toprudder
	Now there are three players in the 2.4ghz market. Competition will only make things better for us. I agree with others that I would rather use a module for my radio that is made by the same company that made my radio. If there are any compatibility issues, who better to address them in the first place! I have 5 module based Futaba radios. Nuff said. Unless the other module makers can decipher the 2048 G3 PCM, they have to use PPM. Adding more channels to the PPM pulse train will only make the latency worse. Each pulse in the PPM train adds a nominal 1.5ms to the PPM frame length, that is why you don't see many (any??) PPM systems with more than 8 channels. In fact, one radio that I am aware of allowed the transmitted channels to be programmed, which decreased the latency - great for pylon racers that only need 4 channels and want to bank-n-yank as quickly as possible! Going from 8 to 12 channels will roughly increase the latency by 50%. If this is the only way to get some 2.4ghz modules to work with my 12 channel radio, sorry, I won't buy it. All the 2.4ghz options actually make our existing radios a little better. With all the guys rushing to get 2.4ghz systems, the 72mhz airwaves will be a little less cluttered. Sure, 72mhz will still be prone to shoot-downs, but with fewer radios on 72mhz the chances of that happening will decrease. We will also have to wait for the frequency pin less often now. I will get one 2.4ghz module when it is available, but I won't be dumping all my 72mhz stuff right away, I have too many receivers on 72. I don't see any reason to make a mad rush to get rid of them. Bob R.

[JEFFRO503]

whoops double post......

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by btomlinson
	I wasnt aware but Futaba is a HUGE company. The consoumer RC division isnt a drop in the bucket

Futaba Corporation does +/- $850 million per year according to various publicly available sources. I've heard through the grapevine that the RC end is worth about 15% or so of that. Call it $130 million or so. Not exactly chicken feed in anyone's book.

Take a look at Formula One sometime. Futaba supports TWO cars!! How's THAT for a hobby??

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	Just out of curiousity.....What would happen if you put two futaba's head to head for speed/latencey , with one being a futaba 12Z/with new futaba fasst moduel and the new futaba 12G , which one would be quicker.......or would they be the same speed?

According to what I have been told putting the module into a 12Z or 14MZ makes it a FAST system. SO I would expect that you would not see a difference between that and the 12FG.

[btomlinson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Futaba Corporation does +/- $850 million per year according to various publicly available sources. I've heard through the grapevine that the RC end is worth about 15% or so of that. Call it $130 million or so. Not exactly chicken feed in anyone's book.

I was in no way meaning anything derogatory toward Futaba. For years I was a JR guy until I bought a 14MZ. I think Futaba having the years of experience in Industrial applications is what brings state of the art products. These products blows everyone out of the water IMHO. I doubt anyone else has teams of engineers on staff

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Take a look at Formula One sometime. Futaba supports TWO cars!! How's THAT for a hobby??

I know.. I doubt they would have the funds selling hobby products

[JEFFRO503]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	According to what I have been told putting the module into a 12Z or 14MZ makes it a FAST system. SO I would expect that you would not see a difference between that and the 12FG.

That's really good to know. I can't remember where i read it , but somebody had stated that , when you replace the moduel on lets say a Futaba 7cap that's 1024mgz right.........and if you switch the moduel out to a spektrum based moduel , you will have the spektrum freq , but the speed stays at 1024........is that correct?

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by btomlinson
	I was in no way meaning anything derogatory toward Futaba. For years I was a JR guy until I bought a 14MZ. I think Futaba having the years of experience in Industrial applications is what brings state of the art products. These products blows everyone out of the water IMHO. I doubt anyone else has teams of engineers on staff I know.. I doubt they would have the funds selling hobby products

Not taken that way either. I just thought people might be interested in the actual numbers. I know it was an eye-opener for me!!

Another tidbit - Futaba started in 1948 making vacuum tubes. They made their first hobby RC stuff in 1962. I have heard numbers like 2/3 rds as being their world-wide RC market share. A big company with a long history that pretty much owns the market. They may move slowly at times, but when they do move - Oh Man!!

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	That's really good to know. I can't remember where i read it , but somebody had stated that , when you replace the moduel on lets say a Futaba 7cap that's 1024mgz right.........and if you switch the moduel out to a spektrum based moduel , you will have the spektrum freq , but the speed stays at 1024........is that correct?

I am not as up to date on the radios below the 12/14 series. I also do not know much about the Spektrum modules in Futaba radios. I suspect that in those applications it is reasonable to assume that you cannot improve the inherent system processing speed simply by changing modules. The 12 & 14 are already lightning fast and that is why they can deliver FASST performance when mated to the new FASST modules.

[Dangerous Dan]

Seriously Can you use two RX's with this System? Judge need not reply.

[paffy]

I was hoping that by this time, the issue of FAILSAFE on the modules would be discussed.

Nothing so far, so my very serious question is:

How is the failsafe function implemented on both the 12Z/14Z module and 8U/9Z module ??

P.