FlyingGiants Exclusive! Introducing The Futaba 12FG, Modules & More!

[Stainless Skills]

what.

[toprudder]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	The more channels you have going/or in operational use makes the latencey really bad , because it must read all the channels at once correct? So.......with every channel added , the latencey get's worse and worse. I guess it's how they we're designed a few months back , but now with the newer futaba stuff coming out , they seemd to have fixed the latencey problems with the higher channel radios , like the 12Z and 14Z is that right?

Generally speaking, the more channels you transmit, the worse the latency. It is referred to as "bandwidth".

For PPM, the information transmitted is in the form of a serial pulse stream. First, there is a reset pulse that is 2.5 or more milliseconds long. This is the pulse that syncronizes the receiver with the transmitter. Then, for every channel, there is a pulse, the width of that pulse (normally from 1 to 2 milliseconds wide) determines the position of the servo for that channels. So, for an 8 channel radio, the pulse stream could be as long as 20ms. The servo positions can't be updated any quicker than about 20ms.

Enter PCM, where the servo positions are digitized and the servo position information is encoded as binary data, 10 bits per channel (for a 1024 system). I don't know the format of the PCM data stream, but I have heard that the original PCM systems transmitted in two frames, with half the channels in each frame, and the update rate was longer than 20ms.

I have also heard that some newer PCM systems give priority to channels that have changed positions (no need to transmit data as often if it has not changed). I don't know this for a fact, however, but it does make sense. This would be the best way, IMHO, to improve latency. This requires a variable frame format so that different channels can be sent at any time. I suspect this is how the "servo grouping" option works, where both aileron or both elevator servo positions can be grouped together and sent at the same time (in the same frame) so that one aileron or elevator channel will not lag behind the other while moving positions.

Probably the main reason that newer PCM formats have improved latency is because of data compression or the variable frame format I mentioned above. I'm not sure. But, those kinds of improvements in technology have been made possible because of the improvement in processing speed of the microprocessors available for use in the transmitters and receivers.

If I made any wrong assumptions in the above, I'm sure someone will be kind enough to correct me.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Tor
	Hi Bob Futaba just upgraded the software to provide 12 channel PPM - we don't know yet if the Futaba modules use PPM or not.

If it talks PPM to the module, that will be a step backwards, IMHO. I'd be willing to bet that they talk G3 2048 to the module, or perhaps even a different proprietary format that might even be faster.

	Quote: Originally Posted by juvaknin
	it's recommend that we do this Range-Test with Engine on? i know some guys that always doing Range-Test with their 50CC or 100CC running on Full throttle.. it's necessary to test that way??

One reason to do this with ignition engines is because of the broadband noise that spark ignition can generate. The noise can go as high as a few hundred MHz. 2.4ghz is way above this and should be immune to it.

However, vibration can cause marginal connections to fail, and that will affect things regardless of the frequency in use. This goes for glow engines as well.

What I really want to know is PRICE!!!

Bob R.

[Judge]

Everything you ever need to know about PCM and PPM and radios in general:

http://www.torreypinesgulls.org/radios.htm

[3dubya]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 3dubya
	Why are both these 2 logos on the new tranny at same time, the wireless frequency select one (WFSS) and the spectrum one (FASST), how can you wireless select a frequency on spectrum.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Futabaman
	Futaba wants to give you the opportunity to be able to go back and forth between having 72mhz freq's and also the 2.4 FASST system. Therefore the logos. In answer to your question, you can't change frequencies with the FASST system when in operation.

	Quote: Originally Posted by TrojanMan
	Hammbone, Yes on the 14mz and the 12z but the 12fg is a dedicated 2.4Ghz system.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Hammbone
	You sure about that? Go back to posts #224 and #225. Jim

So wait a second i got lost, the radio on the front of this thread with a module and aerial change (assumed) can transmit on 72mhz or 36mhz in my region over here, which was kinda my original question without saying it. If so how does the aerial get changed..

[Judge]

I've heard two different possibilities.

1 - The photo is an artist's rendering. The 12FG will use modules, just like the 12Z and 14MZ. You will select which module you want - SS, 50/72 (US -others as allowed).

2 - There will be 2 versions. 1 dedicated to SS, the other that allows you to switch out.

I think #1 is more likely. Futaba put up a chart that compares the three (and ALL their radios):

http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/feature-compare.html

SS is not mentioned at all. It does say that the 12FG is a module system.

BTW - the way I understand that the modules will fit is that they are very low profile. The antenna will be tight to the transmitter back and will come up between the back and the handle.

[CSpaced]

I don't know if anyone has posted these yet, so here goes.

[Judge]

Robbe in Europe also has ads out for the 12FG, all in the G3 version. I suspect that the 12FG will indeed use the same module as the other two high end radios to get on SS. Based on the way the module appears to fit this is not big deal to me.

In fact, I like the idea that I can transition while still using my 14MZ on 72 and ham band. That way I do not need to buy a boatload of RXs all at once.

The really interesting thing is how little difference there is between the 12FG and 12Z when it comes to actual programming features.

[CSpaced]

Did we ever find out a ballpark figure for pricing on the 12FG?

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by CSpaced
	Did we ever find out a ballpark figure for pricing on the 12FG?

I have not heard anything that even hinted at pricing yet. I'm hoping that maybe this weekend at Toledo we will get more info.

[japan3d]

Going by the pictures above the price will be $1000-1250. But I know here in Japan you can knock 20% off that price. These radios come with servos also.

[paffy]

Have you guys seen the upgrade option for the 8U Super ?

[CSpaced]

Does the scotch tape come standard?

[paffy]

	Quote: Originally Posted by CSpaced
	Does the scotch tape come standard?

I heard you get a 4" piece as part of the kit. But in reality - who knows - with the industry working off of an artist's representation of a product lately and all....

P.

[toprudder]

	Quote: Originally Posted by paffy
	I heard you get a 4" piece as part of the kit.

Funny, I heard it was a 10cm piece of tape. Hmmmm.

[Hammbone]

If the 12Z, 14MZ, and 12FG are all going to come with interchangeable modules, I wonder if they will start selling the 12Z and 14MZ with your choice of modules?

Jim