How to Secure an Indoor Flying Venue?

[SlowHuck]

I've taken it upon myself to rally the charge in our club to find a regular indoor flying site and am looking for some ideas. I'm aware of the many perks such a resource would offer a club of our size (about 45 members, only about half being active). While the benefits of having an indoor site is not the focus of my query, your ideas on that front are welcomed in the discussion as well.

What I am most interested in is:

- what types of institutions would be most open to facilitating our needs,

- how best to approach the administrators of said institutions,

- what should a proposal/presentation consist of?

http://midvarc.com

[Joshua Ziering]

Pray.

[Matchless]

SlowHuck, I was actually writing an article for one of the magazines on this very subject, but I did not get it done in time for this past indoor season....
Anyway, to answer your question, here are some answers....

What kind of place? ---> Churches, Private Schools, Public Schools, Multi-Use facilities (hold everything from rodeos to flea markets) Colleges, Ice Skating rinks, Local Armory's, older airports (former military is a plus because of the size of their hangars). ETC.

How to approach them? ---> I think you have to decide your intended purpose first? Is this a short term deal? Do you want to make a longer term, ongoing club thing? Do you want to host an event there eventually?
After I've answered the questions above, I typically walk in in my business dress clothes and ask to speak to the facility administrator (It helps me a little bit that I have facilities under me at my work). I then explain what I am inquiring about and for what term. I also always have my AMA card handy and explain what the AMA can do (insurance certificates, etc).

I've been lucky. I've been told 'no' a few times and 'yes' a few times - and I have not yet had to pay for a facility I arranged for myself.... I also have a handful of friends that are much better at this stuff than I am......

Some other things I've experienced-- Private schools and churches are more likely to say yes than a public school. Some of those listed above make money renting to people like ourselves, and some are just happy to allow someone to use the facility when others are not. You are typically fighting for floor time against little-league basketball and volleyball at the schools and churches. It helps greatly to get on their schedule early whatever the facility is that you are talking to.......

Good luck Les!

[SlowHuck]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Matchless
	SlowHuck, I was actually writing an article for one of the magazines on this very subject, but I did not get it done in time for this past indoor season....

After a first-of-April weekend with snow on the ground on Saturday and a cold, blustery wind both days, I'm of the mindset that the "indoor season" is year-round, especially for a certain contingent of our membership.

	Quote:
	What kind of place? ---> Churches, Private Schools, Public Schools, Multi-Use facilities (hold everything from rodeos to flea markets) Colleges, Ice Skating rinks, Local Armory's, older airports (former military is a plus because of the size of their hangars). ETC.

The only obvious options in your list are public schools. We are on the way outskirts of metro Richmond, VA and the other facilities you mention are few and far between... at least those with appropriate indoor spaces.

	Quote:
	How to approach them? ---> I think you have to decide your intended purpose first? Is this a short term deal? Do you want to make a longer term, ongoing club thing? Do you want to host an event there eventually?

All of the above, except short-term. I'm thinking that the public schools would offer a great opportunity for community and educational outreach, which would serve to create more interest in membership with the club. We are a 30+ year-old AMA sanctioned club whose membership is declining in activity, even though we have two outstanding outdoor sites, we need new blood. Although securing an indoor venue for active members is of primary interest, a MAJOR secondary agenda is exposing new potential members to the hobby.

Who, precisely, should I approach? School board chairman? City Councilman? School Principal?

	Quote:
	After I've answered the questions above, I typically walk in in my business dress clothes and ask to speak to the facility administrator (It helps me a little bit that I have facilities under me at my work). I then explain what I am inquiring about and for what term. I also always have my AMA card handy and explain what the AMA can do (insurance certificates, etc).

Check, check and double-check. Are you aware of any documented AMA initiatives to support such efforts? I'm embarrassed to say I have yet to explore that avenue.

	Quote:
	I've been lucky. I've been told 'no' a few times and 'yes' a few times - and I have not yet had to pay for a facility I arranged for myself.... I also have a handful of friends that are much better at this stuff than I am...... Some other things I've experienced-- Private schools and churches are more likely to say yes than a public school. Some of those listed above make money renting to people like ourselves, and some are just happy to allow someone to use the facility when others are not. You are typically fighting for floor time against little-league basketball and volleyball at the schools and churches. It helps greatly to get on their schedule early whatever the facility is that you are talking to.......

All great advice. I thank you for the reply. I need more! Feed me with your ideas!!! On a certain level, I feel that the long term survival of our club and the future growth of the hobby is dependent on what I can accomplish in the near-term.

[wizard]

Guys, This is a great thread. For many, I know that this seems like the wrong time to be looking at this aspect of the hobby, but now is the time to start to make arrangements for next season.

It can take awhile to make these kinds of arrangements from the facility standpoint. Many times it isn't just one individual that makes the decisions, the main contact may have to discuss it with a board or even wait until a meeting to make a decision.

Another thing to think about is the fact that some of the micro planes almost can't be flown outdoors except on a day with no wind. For those that enjoy the micro size planes a year around scheduled time once or twice a month would be a great thing.

I will be watching this one guys. Great ideas and advice so far. Thanks.

[SlowHuck]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wizard
	Guys, This is a great thread. For many, I know that this seems like the wrong time to be looking at this aspect of the hobby, but now is the time to start to make arrangements for next season.

I strongly believe that the "next season" is now! Weekends being prime-time for most enthusiast make them a prime target for Mother Nature's tantrums. WeekNIGHTs during the "on season" at an accessible local venue would also certainly help to curb the urge of hobbyist.

	Quote:
	It can take awhile to make these kinds of arrangements from the facility standpoint. Many times it isn't just one individual that makes the decisions, the main contact may have to discuss it with a board or even wait until a meeting to make a decision.

Yes! the sooner the better. The decision-making process of the admins of some of these institutions would make a snail snore. The time to take action is now!

	Quote:
	Another thing to think about is the fact that some of the micro planes almost can't be flown outdoors except on a day with no wind. For those that enjoy the micro size planes a year around scheduled time once or twice a month would be a great thing.

BINGO!!!!

The biggest point I'd like to push is putting the joys of the hobby into the laps of the future members.

Don't forget about the nube electric heli pilots that REALLY need the no-wind environs to develop their skills.

[Matchless]

	Quote:
	The only obvious options in your list are public schools. We are on the way outskirts of metro Richmond, VA and the other facilities you mention are few and far between... at least those with appropriate indoor spaces.

On that note, I bet there are a bunch more than you realize. VFW halls, KOC, etc often have a place where you can fly. I did not mention Golf Domes and indoor soccer facilities (Primarily because we don't have them anymore in the part of the country I live in.....) So get out there and look some more. I bet you'll find something.....

	Quote:
	Who, precisely, should I approach? School board chairman? City Councilman? School Principal?

At schools, I'd start with the Gym teacher. Then you can approach the principal knowing their name and saying 'your gym teacher mr/ms soandso said I should speak to you regarding........' That way you have created your 'in'.
For other facilities (churches, multi-use) ask to speak to the facility administrator. That person often does many other jobs (I am that way) but also runs 'the building'.

	Quote:
	Check, check and double-check. Are you aware of any documented AMA initiatives to support such efforts? I'm embarrassed to say I have yet to explore that avenue

.

Honestly, I'm not sure, as I've not had to play that card to heavily yet. A quick call to the national office will get you an answer however.

One other factor worth mentioning is building your list of 'clientele' who would enjoy the indoor facility. Don't stick just to 3d'rs that will limit your possibilities and potentially your ability to pay for the rental fee (if applicable). Teaching existing pilots how to fly indoors makes a big difference in your attendance. People are in general very afraid of hitting the walls (a pretty reasonable fear) and they are not used to the size of and construction of indoor stuff. Make a club night to show off some of the different types of indoor airplanes that can be built. Include suppliers names in the discussions so people know where to get the stuff and be ready to help when their order of new goodies arrives........

[SlowHuck]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Matchless
	On that note, I bet there are a bunch more than you realize. VFW halls, KOC, etc often have a place where you can fly. I did not mention Golf Domes and indoor soccer facilities (Primarily because we don't have them anymore in the part of the country I live in.....) So get out there and look some more. I bet you'll find something.....

Golf domes and indoor soccer facilities don't exist here, being beyond the Southern edge of that seasonal demand. Don't get me started on the soccer players, they've already robbed me of 90% of my potential flying fields.

My first initiative is to motivate the membership to be creative about potential sites. I only have personal knowledge of the public schools. I'm hoping someone else will have some fresh ideas.

There is a local Army base. They already grant us use of some of the property. Hangers for their helicopter ops are sure to exist, but I wouldn't want to pressure that resource any further. Plus, it does not serve the secondary part of our agenda: membership development.

[SlowHuck]

Hmm...

I'm kinda surprized that this thread has no life. Thought this had to be a "hot button" issue for quite a few folks. Oh well.

BUMP

[Matchless]

	Quote:
	Hmm... I'm kinda surprized that this thread has no life. Thought this had to be a "hot button" issue for quite a few folks. Oh well.

I think this is a subject that is quite often tackled by a small percentage of 'club members'. IE, one guy often does all the work (and therefor has the know-how) and the others just come and enjoy it.....

[gareth.ky]

This is a great idea for a thread! Matchless has some good ideas. I may have to take it upon myself to find an indoor site for my club for next indoor season. The club has access to the local Armory BUT its during regular business hours. This only works out for the retired club members and they don't seen any reason to secure another facility.

We had a good deal with a local school in Pensacola. We got to use the facility 2 nights a week from 7 to 10. We usually had 3-5 people show up most nights. We did not pay to have access to the facility but AMA membership was required. The club also held an event there and the admission fee was donated back to the school. I would like to find that a situation like that here in Oklahoma City.

[why_fly_high]

I have thought about this a lot and have always wondered what are good minimum dimensions for an indoor facility. I have only been to bigger places like the Armory in OKC or convention centers. My church has a gym but it seems small, barely larger than 1 basketball court. I know it makes a difference depending on what you want to fly but for the normal 30 inch 6 ounce 3D stuff what is too small to be fun?

Thanks,

Dan

[Matchless]

Dan, thats a question I spent some time on in the past.... As you know it all comes down to wingloading and skill level and they are directly proportional to each other (higher wingloading requires more skill indoors)

Personally, I feel pretty comfortable in a half-court gym, but most people don't.....

Here's some of the guidelines I had thought of....

Half Court Gym- 2-3oz wingloading, intermediate or above skill level
Full Court Gym - 4oz wingloading and below, beginner to intermediate and above
Double Court Gym - 5-6oz wingloading and below, Beginner and above skill level

What does this mean? Most shockfliers with a reasonable build(6ozs like you said, not 9ozs) are very comfortable being flown by an intermediate pilot in a full court gym, however a Slowstick in a full court gym is not. SlowSticks and other foamy scale GWS airplanes typically feel better to almost anyone in a double court gymnasium.

Your milage may vary.....

[why_fly_high]

I thought it would be a good time to bump this back up. Anyone have some success stories they want to share or words of advice. I am working on trying to find a place locally. I have a couple possibilites. I just want things lined up and ready to answer any questions that might arise and find out the best approach. Like most things in life when you are asking a strangger for something, the easy answer is no. It takes much less effort on there part. I am trying to find someone that knows someone to have an in to lessen the chance of an easy no.

Dan

[SlowHuck]

	Quote: Originally Posted by why_fly_high
	I thought it would be a good time to bump this back up.

Thanks for that. I'd left this issue on the back burner due to more pressing issues. I.E: an established club with TWO great fields, declining membership and a bunch of OFs (old farts) who have no interest in expanding the offerings of our club.

There is the possibility of access to large, indoor recreational spaces at a local Army base (who is has been a benefactor of our best outdoor field for over 30 years), but the idea of tapping into the base as a HUGE potential membership pool is not gaining any support from the membership.

But that's another thread.

I'll be following and will contribute where I can. Good luck.