H9's Sundowner

[CRG]

That airplane had a foam wing, molded fuselage and tail. It's a fair chunk of money but still tough to recover the time and effort that goes into building them.

Until one of the big players make a race legal ARF there's no 'cheap' way into F1 or Unlimited. Spend your money on a molded airframe, or spend your time building one from scratch. I built my Cassutt (there's a build thread on FG) for a few hundred bucks but it took a year of pretty solid building.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jkoch713
	I saw a all composite Sundowner in the f1gt for sale for 4000$ or B/O...(I beleieve this was the F1 GT clas.. Thanks for info.... Jusitin

[Jkoch713]

Craig,
I hate to say it, but these numbers prove my point that USRG has made a mistake by forcing one to move up!... Meaning that if one wants to keep racing, you have to go and spend a great deal of money to be competative....

Other events have steping stones ( that isn't a mistake) but is is a mistake to FORCE one, to have to go and buy a new airframe to continue racing....

Example that I know of is in Motocross, you start in the C-class and move to B-class if, you have enough points to move up to B-class then you move up....
But, You do not have to change classes.... Meaning one wouldn't have to go and buy a 250cc bike instead of running a 125cc..... They just move up in competetiveness......

I guess that the goal of USRG is not to have a bunch of people racing, it seems they are more of the ELITE attitude... Meaning they are happy just keeping thins small.... and few... (this isn't a bad thing) I just thought witht he addition of the Sundowner class it was a change o venue for them? prehaps not.... Or perhaps I am way off on this....

I am off subject ...... Sorry....
Hows those sundowners going?

Justin

[rcplane]

jkoch713.

I think you need to go to a race to see how it is. The USRA (in my opinion) want more guys and that is why they are putting all the effort into the Sundowner in the first place. They already have the Dominator for a starter class so if they were just into doing it by themselves, why bother at all with the Sundowner?
What happened (and again this is just my opinion) is that the Evolution motor did not perform like they wanted or maybe even were told it would. Also lots of guys across the country have other good motors that have been around for years they already own that would work good, so with more effort they decided to allow a variety of engine choices, Saito 180, Moki 210 etc... To me this shows even more that they want new members and more racers.
You must go to a race and spend a couple days talking with these guys. Their generosity and friendship, the desire they have to race......... Then you will know there is nothing ELITE about them.
....except the cool facter they get every time the watch an Unlimited race!

Mike

[CRG]

You're kidding me right?

Who promised anybody that being competitive in their chosen field of interest could be done for the same cost as a Sundowner? Sure playing with toy airplanes can get expensive but so do hundreds or other activities. If you want to go fast in a well matched environment there are more affordable options, like AMA 424 and 428. Giant Scale Racing has a minimum investment, and it's not out of line with other segments.

You most definately ARE way off on this. Your perception of the elitist attitude is not new to the USRA, but we most definately have an arms open policy to newcomers.

You need to come to race and see for yourself, I think it would change your mind on a few things. The Sundowner class is hoped to be a method to prevent the USRA from remaining small, not hold it to some select group of guys.

Your take on this just blows me away. The USRA has added a class to allow hundreds more modelers to come and experience what it is we enjoy so much. Give it a little time and if the current rules need fixing we'll do it.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jkoch713
	Craig, I hate to say it, but these numbers prove my point that USRG has made a mistake by forcing one to move up!... Meaning that if one wants to keep racing, you have to go and spend a great deal of money to be competative.... Other events have steping stones ( that isn't a mistake) but is is a mistake to FORCE one, to have to go and buy a new airframe to continue racing.... Example that I know of is in Motocross, you start in the C-class and move to B-class if, you have enough points to move up to B-class then you move up.... But, You do not have to change classes.... Meaning one wouldn't have to go and buy a 250cc bike instead of running a 125cc..... They just move up in competetiveness...... I guess that the goal of USRG is not to have a bunch of people racing, it seems they are more of the ELITE attitude... Meaning they are happy just keeping thins small.... and few... (this isn't a bad thing) I just thought witht he addition of the Sundowner class it was a change o venue for them? prehaps not.... Or perhaps I am way off on this.... I am off subject ...... Sorry.... Hows those sundowners going? Justin

[funky]

CRG,


What will make the Sundowner faster, The evo 35 or the Moki 2.10. I just want to race, not go over the last supper of Christ? I only want the facts. I have heard the same things about getting more people interested in racing in both Quickee and Q40.

[rcplane]

The guys have gotten better speeds out of the Moki 210, but you do have to use the USRA Moki 17x12 prop, where you don't with the others, you can experiment.
The real test for fastest speed is with a good running Saito 180 "I think", as it can use any prop and it is way lighter. The new regs say 11lbs and I don't think that 11lbs is possible with Evo and not sure if it is with a Moki 210. They are about the same in weight except for electronics which isn't much for the EVO as you can use a tiny lipo.

Mike

[CRG]

Funky,

Those two motors will be very close due to the Moki being required to run the 17x12 only. I think it'll still have a slight edge over the EVO, and will be lighter overall also.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by funky
	CRG, What will make the Sundowner faster, The evo 35 or the Moki 2.10. I just want to race, not go over the last supper of Christ? I only want the facts. I have heard the same things about getting more people interested in racing in both Quickee and Q40.

[CRG]

Mike,

You're right, there's no way to get close to 11 with the EVO. It's very doable with the Saito, mine was a little under that but my airplane wasn't completely a stock build.

Craig.

	Quote: Originally Posted by rcplane
	The guys have gotten better speeds out of the Moki 210, but you do have to use the USRA Moki 17x12 prop, where you don't with the others, you can experiment. The real test for fastest speed is with a good running Saito 180 "I think", as it can use any prop and it is way lighter. The new regs say 11lbs and I don't think that 11lbs is possible with Evo and not sure if it is with a Moki 210. They are about the same in weight except for electronics which isn't much for the EVO as you can use a tiny lipo. Mike

[Sparky69]

The Moki will be better than a EVO, I haven't flown it with the 17x12 yet as I was working up to it but between the two offered as a choice that would be my pick. I saved I think 12 oz swapping engines to the Moki.

Sparky

[Jkoch713]

35EVO...
It is now a 40cc and lighter... DUE out in August.....
Not that much lighter.... but slight improvement...
Will this alter the rules at all???

MVVS 40 IFS - (2.42 cu inch
based on 35ifs, with same main dimensions, but slightly lighter.
bore 38mm
stroke 35mm
weight 1451 grams without ignition
Ignition weight 190 g
Engine dimensions


Fuel: petrol, unleaded 95 octane (US: unleaded premium gas 91 pump octane).
oil: Jaso FC+ two stroke fully synthetic racing oil. Mix at 1:40 (running in 1:30, during the first few gallons)
Carb setting instructions, click here

A powerhouse in ultra small package, suitable for narrow fuselages.

This engine will be expected around August 2008.

[Sparky69]

A few more flights on my Moki 2.10 today. I was running the 16x12 APC prop and was going to run the 17x12 which is the mandentory prop for USRA racing. But I needed to open the spinner up just a little for clearence. I was also running some too high nitro fuel and it was just nasty with that much nitro. On the way home I stopped over at a friends house and I scored some 0% nitro fuel and 5% nitro fuel so it will behave much better next time out.
I also had the Seagull flight data recorder so guys could see real time speed and RPM readouts. I managed to get 151 indicated airspeed in a steep dive, this is not calibrated and subject to installation errors I think the read outs are about 10 MPH too fast but who knows, if some one wants to sponsor me with a GPS only $150 more I can check the accuracy of my airspeed readouts.
Also if some one has a Saito 1.80 I need to borrow it for some testing as well.
I weighed the plane with the current set up and it was 13 pounds even. I am down about 12 oz from the EVO 35 install. My guess is the flight data recorder is around 4 oz.
I expect to fly the 17x12 this week and will make some final conclusions. I first thought the 17x12 would be faster but after today I think it might be a little slower since I am giving up 2" of pitch.
Sparky

[race101]

Hey Guys and gals,

We are suppose to be heading out this weekend to test the "Big D"
Both will have the Saito 180 installed.
If all goes well I will be posting on the USRA Web site.

If we could get our hands on a YS170 we would test it and enjoy some fine speed!!!

Testing will also include My Kelly and GR7 with new 2.4 system installed.

[VKGT]

Any videos of the Sundowner in flight??? I'm very interested in this plane and would like to see how it looks in the air. The Hangar 9 videos are lame

[Sparky69]

VKGT,
Not sure what you are used to looking at but video's of fast planes are usually not very impressive when filmed with amature setups. Trust me this plane is fast compared to sport plane flying but in the scheme of Giant scale racing it is a little more tame. Really I think the F1GT plane that I fly is easier to fly. Landing is easier but it does take a different technique since they are dead stick and these planes will glide forever! I hoped to get some numbers for landing speed just for information and with the high nitro fuel it was all dead stick landings but it looks like touch downs are around 45 mph. If you can keep it lighter than mine it would land a little slower and be more "fun" to fly. I really would like to test a Saito 1.80 in this plane. There have been several cases that I have seen were the footage is spead up a little as well. I went out to fly yesterday but the wind was too much. I have learned that if there is a lot of wind the air is too turbulant and I don't get good numbers
If you want to see a good video look at the other thread about "Parker Video is finally here".
Sparky

[VKGT]

Thanks for the info, I will definately have a look at it. I'll also look into the F1GT as well