Spin Help Please

[3Dreaming]

I'm looking for help to make my spins judge better. I'm trying to do my spins correctly by slowly increasing the pitch (not climbing before the stall), and starting the spin when the stall breaks. To me the airplane appears to drop its wing at a faster rate than the nose giving the illusion that the outboard wing is coming over. Should this be judged a snapped entry? I've read the rules, and know the nose and the wing should drop simultaneously, but it doesn't say the need to drop at the same rate. For a snap or barrel roll entry you need to have forward motion, and the nose pitches up instead of down. What are some things I can try to make my spins judge better? Thanks, Tom

[Wayne]

Nothing.
You won. Your spins are perfect.

[3D Trev]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 3Dreaming
	I'm looking for help to make my spins judge better. I'm trying to do my spins correctly by slowly increasing the pitch (not climbing before the stall), and starting the spin when the stall breaks. To me the airplane appears to drop its wing at a faster rate than the nose giving the illusion that the outboard wing is coming over. Should this be judged a snapped entry? I've read the rules, and know the nose and the wing should drop simultaneously, but it doesn't say the need to drop at the same rate. For a snap or barrel roll entry you need to have forward motion, and the nose pitches up instead of down. What are some things I can try to make my spins judge better? Thanks, Tom

Tom try setting a higher idle or just not coming back all the way on the trottle stick ( depends on how your thr curve is set up ) what this will do is make the entry into the stall a little slower and it will look much smoother. When I say a higher idle I mean +- 300 to 500 rpm higher it just needs the slightest bit more that dead stop idle.

Trev

[Dangerous Dan]

your entries sound fine are you over or under rotating? If tour downline true after the spin? Are you flying a wind corrected line before the spin?

[3Dreaming]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Wayne
	Nothing. You won. Your spins are perfect.

I zeroed 2 spins this weekend. One of them deserved it, but the other I thought was a good one. I have heard the comment before that it kind of looks like a snap entry.

[psk560]

Try different inputs when it stalls... Rudder only... Rudder and aileron... More rudder... etc... Just a thought.

Good Luck and let us know what fixes it for ya,
Craig

[Jamieman]

Other thing you could try is temporarily moving your cg forward a little & poping a nose high attitude just prior to stall.

[RustyTumbles]

Try getting the nose up while you still have some speed on. Just start to ease the elevator in as soon as you pull the throttle back, that way you will have a high angle of attack when the wing stalls. This will make the stall break more apparent to the judges.

[All Thumbs]

What's wrong with a nose high attitude?? As long as the airplane flys straight and level, the attitude of the airplane makes no difference. All airplanes fly differently AND each address the spin entry differently. Just make sure the nose and the wing drop simultaneously and you're good to go. Yeah, the perfectly level stopped airplane presents better, but properly done, an airplane with a nose high attitude at the stall should be scored the same as long as the drop is correct.

[yakwrecker]

Hey 3D,
can i ask what your flying? I havent flown an IMAC this year but I learned that holding rudder when it starts to slow down and your ready for it to break will keep the wing tip from breaking the line. so it kinda starts spinning before the tip drops. I think it looks good but i would like waynes thoughts to see if i am actually doing it right.

[3Dreaming]

I'm flying a QQ102" Yak. I think the problem is it doesn't have a good stall break. When I start rotation the nose drops, but the wing drops quicker. The nose and wing drops at the same time, but the outboard wing comes over the top. If you watch the wing instead of the nose it looks like a snapped entry. Tom

[Tired Old Man]

I sometimes wnder if judges really know what a true spin looks like. If they've ever been in a full scale plane when a spin initiates they'll know that usually a wing drops off first with the nose right behind it. Often the nose pitches up as the wing drops.

The type of the stall has a lot to do with how the spin begins.

[excelpoint]

Are you using aileron in your spin(I never do). If you are this could be making it appear that the opposite wing is coming over the top. It really dosnt matter what a full size spin looks like or what a true spin looks like, the fact is the judges are judging to a set criteria as per the rules which state the wing and nose must drop at the same time, so thats what we as the pilot must try to achieve.

[exeter_acres]

	Quote: Originally Posted by excelpoint
	the fact is the judges are judging to a set criteria as per the rules which state the wing and nose must drop at the same time, so thats what we as the pilot must try to achieve.

B.....I....N.....G.....O......

That is the answer... period

[rcdart]

Another point here for judges and pilots to remember, the definition of a stall, is not an aircraft that is stationary in the sky, dependant on airframe and wingloading this gives a very different visual interpretation. For instance I have been in the situation where the wind was a different direction up high, hence a downwind entry, I got a zero due to the judge explaining to me the aircraft did not stall, that it was still travelling across the sky. Using a S1 Pitts, I think from memory the stall speed is up around 68kts, it definately does not stop in the sky prior to stall in a horizontal plain. Therefore, some see a plane that is not stationary, but falls into a spin, they then determine the entry as forced WRONG!
My point is, this maybe the interpretation that is resulting -possibly incorrectly- is what is causing your zero scores. As Excellpoint said, you need to fly to the criteria, but ask the judges where they are interpreting your nonconformance.

Mick