Smart-Fly Super Reg question

[Ramz]

I have just finished up my install of my Super Reg and Power Expander Sport. So far, it has been working great. I guess my question is: they rate the reg for 7.5 amps continuous with an input voltage of 8.4V and an output voltage of 6.0V. I am running a 35% Extra with 8 5955's. I have not measured the current draw of the servos but I'm wondering if that reg is beefy enough to handle all of those servos. Has anybody here had any issues with running that many servos on the Super Reg? I'm running fresh 4000 lipo's (overkill...yes...but I can fly all day : ) ) so i have lots of electrons on tap. What got me thinking was a piece I read on Horizon's website about QQ's crash at the SEFF event....they said he was running a 7.5 amp reg (but they didn't say it was the smart-fly reg) and that was the cause of the crash (voltage dropped too low). I have about 4 flights on the system and it has worked great so far. I can't notice any difference in servo performance after doing rolling harriers for a few mins (which, i would think, would be a somewhat hefty load on the reg). It doesn't get super hot here where I live (85 is considered extremely warm). I'm thinking about upgrading to the Turbo Reg but if it's not necessary, I would prefer to stay with my Super Reg. Any feedback is appreciated.

[Bob S]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Ramz
	I have just finished up my install of my Super Reg and Power Expander Sport. So far, it has been working great. I guess my question is: they rate the reg for 7.5 amps continuous with an input voltage of 8.4V and an output voltage of 6.0V. I am running a 35% Extra with 8 5955's. I have not measured the current draw of the servos but I'm wondering if that reg is beefy enough to handle all of those servos. Has anybody here had any issues with running that many servos on the Super Reg? I'm running fresh 4000 lipo's (overkill...yes...but I can fly all day : ) ) so i have lots of electrons on tap. What got me thinking was a piece I read on Horizon's website about QQ's crash at the SEFF event....they said he was running a 7.5 amp reg (but they didn't say it was the smart-fly reg) and that was the cause of the crash (voltage dropped too low). I have about 4 flights on the system and it has worked great so far. I can't notice any difference in servo performance after doing rolling harriers for a few mins (which, i would think, would be a somewhat hefty load on the reg). It doesn't get super hot here where I live (85 is considered extremely warm). I'm thinking about upgrading to the Turbo Reg but if it's not necessary, I would prefer to stay with my Super Reg. Any feedback is appreciated.

I would have to say that the single Super reg cannot handle that load. You are looking at a power system failure waiting to happen just like QQ. Turbo reg or add another Super reg would be safer.

Are people flying one reg? Yes. Have they all crashed? No. Does that mean they won't fail? No.

Also think about how many "radio problems" have happened when in fact it might have been traced back to a power system failure. Had they not been able to connect the logger to the receiver the guesses would have been all over the map on the cause of the crash with most people pointing to a radio problem.

[Rolling Thunder]

The super regulator is more then enough for your airplane.

Make sure that your hinges aren't binding and your ganged servos on the ailerons and rudder are fighting each other.

Hangar 9 makes a nice inline amp meter that you can use for your setup. You can learn alot by watching that meter. It is great for setting up ganged servos.

Also if you have any questions call Bob at his office
480-460-2652
or email him at
RRRitchey@QuestEngDev.com

[Bob S]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder
	The super regulator is more then enough for your airplane.

Given that his system could actually draw more current than QQ's that just crashed, what are you basing this on?

[Kiwi]

Just to set your mind a little more at ease I have done some tests with the regulators Bob manufactures. I will get another super reg and test it the same to re confirm my results.

The turbo regulator can hold a constant delivery of 28 amps for 15 seconds without dropping out. I did not do this test with the super reg but will do so now that you have raised the subject. I'm pretty sure the electronics in both are much the same but I wont quote that as being official until I get a chance to test one out again.

While your super reg is rated at 8 amps continuous it will have a burst capacity of some 20 amps. You will never ever pull 20 amps with the setup you have. Or if you do you have some badly locked up servos in a dead short situation and no regulator in the world is ever going to get you out of that situation.

Let me look in my box of tricks to see if I still have a super reg available and I will run it through my gamut of tests. Your questions are very valid but I assure you the regulator you seen die in QQ's model was not a super regulator.

Kiwi

[Ramz]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder
	The super regulator is more then enough for your airplane. Make sure that your hinges aren't binding and your ganged servos on the ailerons and rudder are fighting each other. Hangar 9 makes a nice inline amp meter that you can use for your setup. You can learn alot by watching that meter. It is great for setting up ganged servos. Also if you have any questions call Bob at his office 480-460-2652 or email him at RRRitchey@QuestEngDev.com

I have programmed all of the servos with my programmer so they are not fighting each other. I love my servo programmer. Thanks for the reply.

[Ramz]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Just to set your mind a little more at ease I have done some tests with the regulators Bob manufactures. I will get another super reg and test it the same to re confirm my results. The turbo regulator can hold a constant delivery of 28 amps for 15 seconds without dropping out. I did not do this test with the super reg but will do so now that you have raised the subject. I'm pretty sure the electronics in both are much the same but I wont quote that as being official until I get a chance to test one out again. While your super reg is rated at 8 amps continuous it will have a burst capacity of some 20 amps. You will never ever pull 20 amps with the setup you have. Or if you do you have some badly locked up servos in a dead short situation and no regulator in the world is ever going to get you out of that situation. Let me look in my box of tricks to see if I still have a super reg available and I will run it through my gamut of tests. Your questions are very valid but I assure you the regulator you seen die in QQ's model was not a super regulator. Kiwi

Kiwi: I thank you for your informed reply. It will be interesting to see how many amps the reg will handle continuously. I know Smart-Fly would engineer a significant safety margin into the reg but it would be interesting to find out its real limits. I have never heard of a Super Reg crapping the bed in a 35% plane. I'm sure somebody has had one of the super reg's fail however I would have to question the rest of the setup. Again, thanks for all your help. It is much appreciated.

[Bob S]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Let me look in my box of tricks to see if I still have a super reg available and I will run it through my gamut of tests. Your questions are very valid but I assure you the regulator you seen die in QQ's model was not a super regulator. Kiwi

It would be awesome to see how much current it took before the voltage dropped significantly especially at say 100 degrees. Can't wait to see what you come up with Kiwi.

Even if it fails at say 15a, Smart-Fly is rating it at 7.5a. Why would you want to push a $50 regulator past what the manufacturer rates it at in a $2000 plane? Sure he is being conservative, but shouldn't we be that way too?

[toprudder]

If you are asking the question, you have some doubt. Either add another super-reg, or get a turbo reg. It will provide some peace-of-mind if nothing else. I think for the number of servos you have, the single super-reg might be taxed a little heavy. If everything operates normally you will probably not have a problem, but if one of the servos craps out, especially if it is ganged with another and they are fighting each other, then you could go above the continuous rated spec of the super-reg. I believe the rated stalled current of a 5955 is 4 amps??

How the regulator is arranged in the plane could also make a difference. The continuous rating of the regulator is probably dependant on ambient temperature, and that is supected as part of the reason of QQ's crash (regardless of what brand he may have been using). If the interior of the plane is hot from sitting in the sun, and there is no cooling air moving through it while flying, then the heat-sink can't dissipate as much heat and will probably drop out with less than 7.5 amps continuous. If the heatsink is outside the plane where it gets plenty of cool airflow, it can probably handle more than 7.5 amps. Notice that the turbo reg has a cooling fan on it.

Bob R.

[Rolling Thunder]

Also useing the super regulator and a powerexpander you are not getting the voltage drop that you get from other brands. It uses Deans plugs and heavy wire from the battery through the regulator and to the power expander.

Again, if you have any questions contact BOB.

[rrritchey]

Hi there,
I thought I would jump in a bit here. When I tested the SuperReg at 7.5A I did it at about 90 degrees Fahrenheit. I ran the unit for 15 minutes at 7.5A and watched the heat-sink temperature. After 15 minutes the heat-sink was at about 105 degrees Centigrade which means the actual regulating transistor was around 125 degrees Centigrade. The transistor is rated to run at 175 degrees Centigrade so there was ample margin here. Also, at a 2.5V source-drain voltage the transistor is rated at 20A continuous current, with peak currents to 60A. The TurboReg has two of these transistors running in parallel so it can do 40A continuous with 120A peaks. I rated these units somewhat conservatively. In a 35% plane you are probably going to see about 1.5-2A being used in normal level flight. When you throw the plane into a snap you are going to see peaks but no where near what the servo is rated at because of the wiring in the plane. The connectors and 22ga wire on the servos will show a voltage drop between the PowerExpander (as an example of a solid power source) and the servo it self. I did a test where I got a power supply that could do 10A and set it to 6V and put a pigtail on it, then a 3 foot extension and lastly one more pigtail to an electronic load. At 3 amps of load the voltage at the load end was 5.15V. You can imagine what is at a servo over a longer extension or if you have any more connectors in line, which by the way are the places were the most voltage drop occurs, across the connector rather than in the wire. The lower the voltage the servos see the less current they will draw. Also, the servos draw the most current when you move them from position A to B. Once they get to where they are going the current drops. For example in the snap, you will see the most current during the time it takes for all the servos to move to their maximums, then the current load will drop. This is for two reasons, the servos draw less holding than moving and the plane has slowed way down causing less force on the surfaces. I really cannot stress how important it is to have good wiring between the battery and the power distribution system. The insulation on our wiring is a low temperature plastic and melts at a low temperature. If this happens and you get a short kiss it all goodbye. This is why I use all silicon wire on my connections. The new PowerExpander and PowerSystem Sport Plus us standard R/C plugs for power input but these are meant to be used in smaller planes, 50cc-80cc (or a 100cc if you are not doing heavy 3D just IMAC). They are also meant to be used with dual batteries so you split the load across the connectors. Anyway this is probably way more than you guys want but I thought I would throw it out there.

[toprudder]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rrritchey
	Hi there, I thought I would jump in a bit here. <snip> Anyway this is probably way more than you guys want but I thought I would throw it out there.

Great information, thanks!

From what you describe, it sounds like some cooling airflow over the regulator would really increase the continuous current capacity of the super-reg. I'm also glad the the regulator was conservatively rated. From working in electronics for many years, I know that the hotter an electronic component gets, the shorter its expected life regardless of the max rating.

I have an eLogger from Eagle Tree. I've used it for my electric powered planes, but this sounds like an excellent application for it. Hook it inline with the battery and log the battery voltage (depression) and current through a flight. Also monitor the regulator temperature with a connected temperature sensor. With the LCD screen (which I have) you can tell at the end of a flight what the max current and minimum voltage was during a flight, or download the entire recorded flight and analyze it. The LCD will also tell you the battery voltage before you take off. Hmmmm....

Bob R.