Who using A123 batteries?

[Hammbone]

Yup, to each his own.

I find it funny that a lot of the guys like you that always said Powerboxes / Power Expanders were not needed are now using the Spektrum Powersafe rx's which are designed similar to a Power Expander, but not quite as good.

Sure, I could fly without a Power Expander, but unlike you, I am convinced that they are an improvement to my system and not just "bling". They do away with restrictions of current flow in my system. They do much more too, but that's the main reason I use them.
Obviously the design engineers at Spektrum saw the need to correct this problem as well, and designed their Powersafe rx's. They are a step in the right direction, but still not as good as a Power expander.

Are Power Expanders "needed" to fly a giant scale plane? NO
Do they improve your system and provide better current flow? DEFINITELY YES


Jim

[Panzlflyer]

2A diodes at Radio shack...add 2 to drop it further.
You will actually save some weight and get more run time swapping out.

Since A123s all I invest in now is a good switch/s.. I have had really good luck with the Wolverine on my 35% plus it has a Blue light for those that like Bling!!
Even got 123s on my Heli now.

[gareth.ky]

In my opinion the ONLY value in a powerbox/power expander is getting the power onto the Rx bus via some larger gauge wires and good connectors. The rest is mostly worthless, especially if the expander can't alert you to battery failure or other issues. Power expanders that incorporate regulators add points of failure to the system but they are convenient for lipo/lion users.

The Power Safe Rx adds the one good thing about a powerbox without any of the other crap.

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by gareth.ky
	In my opinion the ONLY value in a powerbox/power expander is getting the power onto the Rx bus via some larger gauge wires and good connectors. The rest is mostly worthless, especially if the expander can't alert you to battery failure or other issues. Power expanders that incorporate regulators add points of failure to the system but they are convenient for lipo/lion users. The Power Safe Rx adds the one good thing about a powerbox without any of the other crap.

O.K., you understand the importance of getting enough current flow into the rx, but what about getting enough current flow from the rx to the servos. What if you are running 3 or 4 servos on one channel. Are you going to run the current for 4 servos through one standard connector? If you are comfortable with this, then why would you need larger gauge wires and good connectors going into the rx?

A Power Expander provides for multiple output ports per channel so you never have to run the current for more than one servo through a single standard connector.

Jim

[gareth.ky]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Hammbone
	O.K., you understand the importance of getting enough current flow into the rx, but what about getting enough current flow from the rx to the servos. What if you are running 3 or 4 servos on one channel. Are you going to run the current for 4 servos through one standard connector? If you are comfortable with this, then why would you need larger gauge wires and good connectors going into the rx? A Power Expander provides for multiple output ports per channel so you never have to run the current for more than one servo through a single standard connector. Jim

I have an allergy to matchboxes. I try to always run each servo back to the Rx. With 9 channel Rx's fairly affordable and good high torque servos that's not a problem for most IMAC aircraft.

Granted, the current flow to one servo is close to the connectors limits right now. The servo connector standard needs to be updated by the industry.

Still if your running 3 servo wings you might need that power expander if your radio can't run a 3 servo wing.

If the radio has enough channels and is sufficiently programmable you don't need the expander.

[Hammbone]

Then we agree on that, but I like the extra features provided by a Power Expander as well.

Jim

[mflander]

Like what?

[Hammbone]

Straight from Smart Flys website regarding the Power Expander Pro:

“Smart-sense” inputs will isolate a bad battery or indicate a bad connection
Filtered and regulated 5.0V power to receiver
Receivers can be end-loading or top-loading
Ten servo channels
LED indicators for servo and receiver power
Full RF filtering of all signals in and out of unit
Fully buffered signal line for each servo
Long servo lead line matching
High-current Deans Ultra Plug power input connectors
Optional Failsafe-switch operation
Light weight, 2.6 oz, 74g
Compact design, 4” x 3”

Jim

[mflander]

Most of which are directed towards 72mhz, such as rf filtering and buffered signal lines. Long lead line matching is not necessary with today's 2.4 radio's also(servo matching is built in). I was just trying to figure out what the benefits of a expander would be over the 9100 that you mentioned earlier. I'm really not seeing anything that would make me spend another $50-100 and add one more component to the system.

[Hammbone]

If you don't need to run more than one servo per channel, you're fine with the 9100.
If you think that 2.4Ghz is immune to rf noise, you're mistaken.
I think long lead line matching has to do with current flow, not servo matching, but to be honest, I'm not really sure what it is.
A Power Expander will isolate a bad battery or indicate a bad connection.

True, these are not big things, but little extra features that I don't mind having.

Jim

[mflander]

The 9100 will isolate batteries also and gives you led lights to tell you which battery it is drawing from.

You may be right about engine noise, but all I know is that I don't use ferrite magnets on applications that I use to need them for with 72. I have also had 0 issues with noise in the gas planes.

Don't take me wrong hammy I'm not trying to say powerexpander's are not useful, I was just trying to get you to elaborate a little bit more on your statement so I could make a decision for myself, that's all.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Hammbone
	Yup, to each his own. I find it funny that a lot of the guys like you that always said Powerboxes / Power Expanders were not needed are now using the Spektrum Powersafe rx's which are designed similar to a Power Expander, but not quite as good.

Well, there may be others doing that, but I am not. I fly Futaba radios. I use a 14MZ and do not use additional servo matching devices, power distribution equipment, or anything beyond good batteries, large gauge wire and low loss plugs.

	Quote:
	Sure, I could fly without a Power Expander, but unlike you, I am convinced that they are an improvement to my system and not just "bling". They do away with restrictions of current flow in my system.

They can do that, but the question is does it really make a difference. I think that done properly, using the right type of cells, the right gauge wire and so on that you can achieve the objective of efficient power delivery without the need for complications and additional hardware.

	Quote:
	Obviously the design engineers at Spektrum saw the need to correct this problem as well, and designed their Powersafe rx's.

I think it is more accurate to say that Horizon/Spektrum saw a marketing opportunity rather than a genuine need. Smart move on their part. In doing so they actually increase the impression that the device is needed. After all, they wouldn't make if it wasn't needed, right?

	Quote:
	Do they improve your system and provide better current flow? DEFINITELY YES

I don't agree that they "improve" the system. I do agree that in theory they can improve power delivery. But I also know that the same thing can be achieved without using them. And even if there still remains a small calculated difference in real life that is not something that can be noticed by the pilot.

But hey, if you like them and feel they work for you, then have at it.

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by mflander
	The 9100 will isolate batteries also and gives you led lights to tell you which battery it is drawing from. You may be right about engine noise, but all I know is that I don't use ferrite magnets on applications that I use to need them for with 72. I have also had 0 issues with noise in the gas planes. Don't take me wrong hammy I'm not trying to say powerexpander's are not useful, I was just trying to get you to elaborate a little bit more on your statement so I could make a decision for myself, that's all.

No problem. I pondered over the same decision myself. I was deciding between the r1222 rx's, or the r1221 rx's with a Power Expander. I chose the later just because its not much more money, and I will never have to run more than one servo through a single standard connector.
Either option is a pretty good set up.

Jim

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Well, there may be others doing that, but I am not. I fly Futaba radios. I use a 14MZ and do not use additional servo matching devices, power distribution equipment, or anything beyond good batteries, large gauge wire and low loss plugs. They can do that, but the question is does it really make a difference. I think that done properly, using the right type of cells, the right gauge wire and so on that you can achieve the objective of efficient power delivery without the need for complications and additional hardware. I think it is more accurate to say that Horizon/Spektrum saw a marketing opportunity rather than a genuine need. Smart move on their part. In doing so they actually increase the impression that the device is needed. After all, they wouldn't make if it wasn't needed, right? I don't agree that they "improve" the system. I do agree that in theory they can improve power delivery. But I also know that the same thing can be achieved without using them. And even if there still remains a small calculated difference in real life that is not something that can be noticed by the pilot. But hey, if you like them and feel they work for you, then have at it.

Your limiting factor is going to be the standard connectors going in and out of your rx.
If we disagree on this, that's fine. Fly what you want to and I will do the same.

I'm headed to the flying field to do so right now.............

Jim

[mflander]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Well, there may be others doing that, but I am not. I fly Futaba radios. I use a 14MZ and do not use additional servo matching devices, power distribution equipment, or anything beyond good batteries, large gauge wire and low loss plugs.

Would you elaborate on this for me a little Judge? I am actually in the middle of helping a buddy set-up a giant scale plane on a 14mz... While I don't think there is any power issues AFTER the receiver using the items you suggested, I have expressed concern as to how to get power INTO the receiver. What do you do to assure adequate flow? I would like to get his set up without an expander also because I really want to keep it as simple as possible for his sake. Thanks...