A123 Batteries for Dummies.

[MarcelloBrazilian]

Hi guys...

Any of you guys have ever used the Hitec X4 Battery Multicharger to charge the A123 batteries ? I heard something about some kind of fail positives on this charger... is this really true ? Because i was thinking about getting one to charge my batteries... What do you guys think ?

[skagitrat]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MarcelloBrazilian
	Hi guys... Any of you guys have ever used the Hitec X4 Battery Multicharger to charge the A123 batteries ? I heard something about some kind of fail positives on this charger... is this really true ? Because i was thinking about getting one to charge my batteries... What do you guys think ?

I have the cellpro 10s and love it. It is a very highly reccommended charger.

[MrFollies]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MarcelloBrazilian
	Hi guys... Any of you guys have ever used the Hitec X4 Battery Multicharger to charge the A123 batteries ? I heard something about some kind of fail positives on this charger... is this really true ? Because i was thinking about getting one to charge my batteries... What do you guys think ?

I've got the hobby king version of the same charger.
It's ok I guess. I use it mainly for A123 packs, Nimh and NiCD. My A123 packs have onboard balancers so I just do a normal charge.

The few times I've used it for LiPo I've been unimpressed with it's balance ability. That may be due to the fact I almost never use LiPos and my packs are a log way out of balance. Perhaps if I cycled them a few times it might make a difference.

I think I paid about $90 for my charger (it really is the same as the HiTec one) and for me it's done the job well.

[Zeeb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RC_Feen
	I have some A123 packs coming to use for my ignition and Rx. What does everyone use as a battery checker to check the current voltage of the pack? Thanks!

I know this thread is HUGE, but you really need to spend some more time here reading it if you have a question like that because the answer is critical; you cannot effectively volt check these batteries....

The normal procedure is to charge the batteries and fly a couple of times keeping track of your flight times and then recharge the batteries with a balancing charger which will display the number of mah's used. Then you fly/charge accordingly. After a bit you'll know how many mah's the model uses on both the rx and the ignition and will know when to charge.

There are a few guys who insist you can volt check 'em and strictly speaking that's true, but you'll need a voltmeter capable of three digits as well as generating a load and you'll have to be aware of changes in hundreths of a volt.

I and most here, just charge by flight time....

[Zeeb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MarcelloBrazilian
	Hi guys... Any of you guys have ever used the Hitec X4 Battery Multicharger to charge the A123 batteries ? I heard something about some kind of fail positives on this charger... is this really true ? Because i was thinking about getting one to charge my batteries... What do you guys think ?

Heard similar stories and I also use the FMA chargers. The CellPro 4S Multi is an excellent charger for the price and does a good job. The CellPro 10S is also a good charger and I have one of those as well, however the new CellPro 10XP will NOT do balance lead only charging which was a big advantage for me and lots of others who primarily do rx flight packs. So you could look for a remanufactured 10S which FMA puts online when available for $100.00 IIRC, or the 4S Multi is a great little charger with lots of capabities including the ability to charge a single cell on an A123 pack which can be a real advantage if you get a pack that's quite bit out of balance for some reason.

If you were up to it and wanted to monkey with the extra wires, FMA has a diagram on building leads for balance lead only charging on the new 10XP but you have to watch the charge rate.

FMA was the first charger to come out with software for the A123 chemistry batteries and they're probably still one of, if not the best chargers for that chemistry.

[MarcelloBrazilian]

Sorry about that Zebb, and really thank you for your guys attention

[f5air]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MarcelloBrazilian
	Hi guys... Any of you guys have ever used the Hitec X4 Battery Multicharger to charge the A123 batteries ? I heard something about some kind of fail positives on this charger... is this really true ? Because i was thinking about getting one to charge my batteries... What do you guys think ?

i have the same charger but hobby king version and works perfect. My ep buddy A123 has external balancer leads so i use the balancer board with the charger and charge in the balance mode and no problemas at all. Also have 6 x 2650 mah 4S 40C lipos and 9 x 450mah 25C 2S at least in my case the ending voltage on each cell is almost the same so works perfect.

[f5air]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RC_Feen
	I have some A123 packs coming to use for my ignition and Rx. What does everyone use as a battery checker to check the current voltage of the pack? Thanks!

i use this and works amazing. Also use to check my lipo packs.

http://electrodynam.com/rc/EDR-207/index.shtml

[RC_Feen]

	Quote: Originally Posted by f5air
	i use this and works amazing. Also use to check my lipo packs. http://electrodynam.com/rc/EDR-207/index.shtml

Thanks. Will this battery tester work as well?

[rcakropilot]

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[5150flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RC_Feen
	I have some A123 packs coming to use for my ignition and Rx. What does everyone use as a battery checker to check the current voltage of the pack? Thanks!

I have used the Volt Magic for years with my A123 batteries. They work great once you get them setup.
www.voltmagic.com

And I only use FMA chargers for all my battery types, never a problem.

[pryor808]

Checking voltage on A123 packs is useless info.

[teambarger]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pryor808
	Checking voltage on A123 packs is useless info.

Not really, You should always check your voltage before EVERY flight. No matter what you are using. But that being said I use my A123 packs the same way you guys do. I had a new guy to A123 ask me to look at his plane and as always I first check voltage. He was well below 6.6 and was flying it earlier in the day. He said he charged it just that morning ( 4500 mah pack ) with a 4 button charger until it said full. It turns out he was trying to charge with 4 amps through a small wire and was getting bad results.
Checking voltage before he flew again saved his plane. Don't assume I guess would be the lesson.

[5150flyer]

The VoltMagic does a lot more than just check the voltage of the batteries on the ground. It gives me peace of mind to have this much information at the end of every flight when I use A123.


Custom configure VoltMagic for your setup -- 4.8 volt, 6.0 volt, 7.4 Lithium, 6.6 A123, or voltage regulator. There are 20 ranges for Voltage (AV). Two selectable ranges for Peak Low Voltage (PLV) record low voltage. There's even Glitch or Failsafe detection. Here are the details:

Averaged Voltage (AV) — An adjustable battery gauge, to indicate low mAH remaining in a battery, or incorrect output from a regulator. It shows a steady display of the current voltage. Each LED represents a 0.1 volt step. 4-cell Nixx, Regulator, 5-cell Nixx, 2-cell A123 and Lithium each have multiple ranges. One monitor for all applications, plus you can fine-tune the colored LED bar graph to match your system, and your personal preference. .

Peak Low Voltage (PLV) — This is what indicates whether the electrical system is capable enough for the servos. Below a certain threshold, shows the lowest voltage at the receiver (or wherever it’s connected) in 0.1 volt increments. There are two ranges, Normal or Low, to select from. The Extended PLV feature temporarily shows an extra 0.2 volts of PLV range on the high end for an early warning, displayed on LED 5 if the switch VoltMagic is connected to is toggled quickly 5 times (after 1 minute of run time). The new EX version sample rate is 1200-1600 per second. The fastest on-board monitor available.

Overvoltage (OV) — For regulated systems, shows if the voltage went above a certain thresholdwhich would indicate an overvoltage failure of a regulator / BEC.

Glitch and Failsafe Counting — Selectable for Glitch (PPM) or Failsafe (PCM or 2.4 GHz with an adjustable failsafe). The counting is smart, so several within a short time period are counted as the same glitch. A glitch (missing or bad signal pulse) from a PCM or 2.4 GHz receiver indicates a fault (possibly a reboot). With a traditional PPM receiver, a glitch usually indicates a failure to receive the transmitters signal.

Data Logger — This feature plays back any PLV / OV plus any Glitch or Failsafe counts from the previous flight when the power is turned on.

[pryor808]

Take it from here. A fully charged pack will peak read 7.2v for about 3-4 minutes then settles to 6.6v. Putting a load on A123's is useless info. They need to be properly balanced from the get go. What type of wire was he using that can't handle 4 amps? The pack was probably not properly balanced charged (not his fault) The pack's cells in a A123 need to be matched almost perfectly from the very bigining. There are vendors out there like www.wrongwayrc.com that properly balance the packs for you before they ship them to the customer. It takes a charger that precisely balances A123's. Just beacuase a charger says it charges A123's, it does not mean it's doing it correctly. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Watch this video http://www.screencast.com/t/MjcxZGVkY2It It's very informative. You can also go to www.hangtimes.com Steve from NoBs batteries is very knowledgeable to battery chimistries and, explains it very well.