Red Bull Air races - Edge dominates. Why?

[1bwana1]

After watching two practice sessions of the Red Bull planes today, it is very clear why the Edges are preferred over the Extras. The Edges are clearly better at racing the short high G environment of the Red Bull pylon coursed. The Edges are quick and agile compared to the Edges. The Edges turn better, bleed of less speed and accelerate between the turns much better. In comparison the Extras look slow, underpowered, and frankly a little clumsy. The difference is obvious to even a casual observer, it is dramatic. There was a new style Extra (300 SR) that had a straight leading edge similar to the Edge in design, and it was only marginally better. So I think the weight, power plant, and fuse must also be contributing to the difference. I am not an aerodynamic expert so I will leave the discussion of why to you. I will say that the full scale Extras are fatter, and stubbier than the stretched versions we are used to seeing in our aerobatic models. The Edges look closer. I fly a ZN-Line Extra in IMAC and it is great. I have never flown a model of the Edge that I thought even came close. But in the Red Bull format the Edges clearly rule.

[Ryguy]

Has anyone tried one of the Slick aircraft in the Red bull races? The 540 runs the same engine as the Edge and is very close in weight. Doesn't have the straight leading edge though.

[Snapman]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mitsu1
	Just wondered ... this new Extra that Besenyei tested ... what does it look like? Is it smaller than a stock Extra 300 ?

Peter Besenyei's new Extra 300SR

[SleepyC]

Oh man.... that picture just inspired many people with crashed edges and extras....

Thats weird looking.

He.. what happens when a Edge 540 and an Extra 300 get drunk.... LOOK At THE PICTURE ABOVE!

[Shaker]

	Quote: Originally Posted by why_fly_high
	It is just the beginning of what is to come. Dan

Is Red Bull really making it that worthwhile to these guys?

[why_fly_high]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Shaker
	Is Red Bull really making it that worthwhile to these guys?

I don't know what Red Bull pays them. They are very competitive guys. Most of them have jobs outside Red Bull racing so they don't seem to mind spending some of the money they get from Red Bull to do work on their plane. Also, as more big sponsors come in, Audi, Breitling, CEAT this year, I think you will see more advances.

Dan

[plane]

My friend Len Rulason who is the crew chief for Kirby last year and Steve Jones this year has told me it's definitely worth their while money wise.

[Shaker]

It would have to be worth it for them to buy a new airplane solely for racing.

[Mithrandir]

I bet a suitably redesigned Lancair would eat up these aerobatic planes...
Clean/Low drag and high Roll rate are what wins... and the EDGE is the least "Dirty" from a drag standpoint.

The straight leading edge cause a bit of spanwise flow towards the root... (Or lessens the flow towards the tip) and thus makes a wing a little more tolerant of AOA before stalling... might be what is helping tighten up the turns....

Next thing you know... they will have inboard and outboard ailerons with scheduling of the "Flaperon" deflections with the elevator.... that would either tighten the turns (Until they are "G" limited/GLOC) or the same radius with less speed loss....

It is a race... someone oughta build a race plane for it...

Wasn't there originally an aerobatic element to this race???

[Ion01]

Here is an interesting article about the redbull race from 2005.
http://www.extraaircraft.com/email/r...continues.html
The edge wasn't always the best apparently.

[adrian]

and everybody thought the MX2 would rule - light, fast and ......................... didn't work

	Quote: Originally Posted by Ion01
	Here is an interesting article about the redbull race from 2005. http://www.extraaircraft.com/email/r...continues.html The edge wasn't always the best apparently.

[why_fly_high]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Ion01
	Here is an interesting article about the redbull race from 2005. http://www.extraaircraft.com/email/r...continues.html The edge wasn't always the best apparently.

Actually, did you read it? It talks about getting second and 3rd. I think Mike Mangold in an Edge won.

Dan

[why_fly_high]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mithrandir
	I bet a suitably redesigned Lancair would eat up these aerobatic planes... Clean/Low drag and high Roll rate are what wins... and the EDGE is the least "Dirty" from a drag standpoint. The straight leading edge cause a bit of spanwise flow towards the root... (Or lessens the flow towards the tip) and thus makes a wing a little more tolerant of AOA before stalling... might be what is helping tighten up the turns.... Next thing you know... they will have inboard and outboard ailerons with scheduling of the "Flaperon" deflections with the elevator.... that would either tighten the turns (Until they are "G" limited/GLOC) or the same radius with less speed loss.... It is a race... someone oughta build a race plane for it... Wasn't there originally an aerobatic element to this race???

One thing to remember is that you are more or less speed limited because the rules limit you to 10 G's. If the course is tight kind of like San Diego, you can only go so fast. A plane that can pull 10 g's and not decelerate would be optimal.

There is usually a half cuban or some kind of vertical roll. I don't know why there isn't any vertical type turn arounds in San Diego.

Maybe you need to talk to the guys at Red Bull and see if they will let you take some Predators through the course. I bet Tim Just would like to try that.

Dan

[Troy P]

You'd have to compare wing loadings but I'd bet a Lancair's is higher than an Edge or Extra on top of the added 1000+ lbs gross weight with the Lancair.

[Troy P]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Ion01
	Here is an interesting article about the redbull race from 2005. http://www.extraaircraft.com/email/r...continues.html The edge wasn't always the best apparently.

That article was put out by the folks at Extra...

"Extra Aircraft Press Contact"