DA 25-30CC FOR 120 SIZE PLANES

[ULTIMATE1]

WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LIGHT WEIGHT GASSER BY DA TO REPLACE 120 SIZE GLOW ENGINES?

[RappyMan]

Sounds good. More choice is a good thing. My friend put a 2.0 Sachs on a 60-90 size Edge 540. No power problems there with a 18" prop!

[rede2fly]

it would be a good thing but the price needs to be smaller as well.

[DKjens]

Dave has probably already regrettet that he made the DA50-R due to having to support all those entry level gas engine users, who just screwed them up when they thought they knew what they were doing. If making an even smaller and cheaper gas engine and having to uphold an impecable service reputation as DA has, will likely cost DA more than they can hope to make on an engine like that.

[futurase]

The other side of the coin is it will get a LOT more people in gas and then if they really like the service/performance from DA then they will more than likely be brand loyal and buy a 50/100/150. Two sides to every coin.

Also if you think that selling and servicing bigger engines means you get a more educated buyer than I have some ocean front property in my back yard here in Arkansas to sell you. I have about 5 "theory busters" that fly at my local flying field.

Dave told me one time there is just as much machine work in a 25cc engine as a 50 so cost would be on par and who is going to pay the same for a 25 as a 50 would cost? Not very many.

Norman Ross Jr.

[madmax]

	Quote: Originally Posted by DKjens
	Dave has probably already regrettet that he made the DA50-R due to having to support all those entry level gas engine users, who just screwed them up when they thought they knew what they were doing. If making an even smaller and cheaper gas engine and having to uphold an impecable service reputation as DA has, will likely cost DA more than they can hope to make on an engine like that.

Aw geez, come on Jensy. Read what you just wrote.

[rede2fly]

	Quote: Originally Posted by DKjens
	Dave has probably already regrettet that he made the DA50-R due to having to support all those entry level gas engine users, who just screwed them up when they thought they knew what they were doing. If making an even smaller and cheaper gas engine and having to uphold an impecable service reputation as DA has, will likely cost DA more than they can hope to make on an engine like that.

so then what you are saying is that if you own a 100 or bigger you know what your doing?? or dont make stupid mistakes learning?? some guys go right to the big stuff buypassing the 30%ers totaly. i would like to think that your statement is exactly opposite. not trying to start a war here. i just dont think that to be true

[DKjens]

Whatever, I'm sure there's no data recorded to support either. It's my view, from personnal as well as 3rd party (read "the very nice, extremely patient, customer support people") experience. And yes, now how do I put this politically correct, as more less experinced, less "mature" (and by mature I mean don't think you know everything) people are able to afford these engines, more people are going to mess them up and as is the "American thing" these days, blame somebody else, in this case DA.

Let me draw a parallel. Let's say a Ferrari F40 became affordable to more people, AND Ferrari let anybody who could afford it purchase it. Do you think a larger percentage of F40 owners would crash them? I think so. Let's even go further, and say that the Ferrari strongly suggested service call is every 10,000 miles at a cost of $2,000 per service call. Now, with all these "lower income" owners with F40's, many of them not being able to afford these "strongly suggested" service calls, do you think more F40's would suffer mechanical failure? I think so.

But hey, it's just my view, disregard it as most do.

[joenella]

Spot on Jens

brgds
Joen

[dubd]

	Quote: Originally Posted by DKjens
	Whatever, I'm sure there's no data recorded to support either. It's my view, from personnal as well as 3rd party (read "the very nice, extremely patient, customer support people") experience. And yes, now how do I put this politically correct, as more less experinced, less "mature" (and by mature I mean don't think you know everything) people are able to afford these engines, more people are going to mess them up and as is the "American thing" these days, blame somebody else, in this case DA. Let me draw a parallel. Let's say a Ferrari F40 became affordable to more people, AND Ferrari let anybody who could afford it purchase it. Do you think a larger percentage of F40 owners would crash them? I think so. Let's even go further, and say that the Ferrari strongly suggested service call is every 10,000 miles at a cost of $2,000 per service call. Now, with all these "lower income" owners with F40's, many of them not being able to afford these "strongly suggested" service calls, do you think more F40's would suffer mechanical failure? I think so. But hey, it's just my view, disregard it as most do.

worst post ever!

Let's not compare F40s to anything made by DA. I know plenty of broke people with DA-150s. I don't know any broke people with Ferraris.

[madmax]

Jens, you have taken pointless to an entirely new level. You too were flying 120 glow motors at some point, and surely suffered from embarrassing and obvious befuddlements like the rest of us. How bout we stop disrespecting members who are in that same place, and enjoy this scale. Mkay frauline?

Back on the topic with the author, and the poll please.

I will expect a shipment of your wifey's salsa as repayment for the last 5 minutes of my life.

[50%plane]

I was told that DA had one in the works at one time. I have no idea if that was true or not. I personally won't buy a small DA, unless it's cheap. DA's are definitely top of the line and the price shows it. Look at the market. 3W, ZDZ, Zenoah, Evolution, Fugi, etc. already have this market. All the engines on the market seem to be on par with each other. With this being said, I fly small glow planes right now. I vote NO.


50%

[knighttwister]

hmm, let me invest two cents.
it seems to me that no matter what the scale of the air plane, or the power source, glow gas or electric, there is a price range to be offered. you can go lower end or high end in just about anything you buy nowadays. that is the american way. it is all a matter of what you are willing to pay. you can spend a less amount for heavy and less reliable, or more for light weight more power, reliability and cusomer service. it all depends on what you are comfortable with.
i for one have been in the hobby for quite a while now and can say for a fact that reliability and a little more initial output of funds is cheaper in the long run unless you have a penchant for dumb thumbing.
my vote is for a smaller size engine for 120 size plane.
go da

[ChrisHays]

	Quote: Originally Posted by madmax
	Jens, you have taken pointless to an entirely new level. You too were flying 120 glow motors at some point, and surely suffered from embarrassing and obvious befuddlements like the rest of us. How bout we stop disrespecting members who are in that same place, and enjoy this scale. Mkay frauline? Back on the topic with the author, and the poll. Any other will be flushed. I will expect a shipment of your wifey's salsa as repayment for the last 5 minutes of my life.

get em' max!

i would like to see a smaller gas engine made by DA.. of course id probably just tear it up and blame da....i reckon i cant read instructions on how to operate a new piece of equipment

[RMaia]

In my opinion it wouldn't make much sense.

First for the reason that was already mentioned, the amount of work involved in making a ~30cc engine is about the same as in a ~50cc one, so cost wouldn't be much different, maybe slightly less due to less materials being needed, but no "huge" differences there.

Second, which to me would be the most important reason is power to weight ratios. I may be wrong, but it seems like these smaller gasser engines have rather poor power to weight ratios when compared to similar displacement glow engines. It's not all about having gobs of power, you also need to keep the plane light if you want good performance. An overpowered plane with a high wing loading will be good only at hovering and pulling out, all other maneuvers will suffer a lot.

With this in mind, for 120 sized models glow still makes more sense, the engines cost less (no need for the cost associated with the electronic ignition module), are lighter (not only due to their construction and smaller size for same power output, but again no need for ignition module, ignition battery, switch and all that) and overall simpler.

In my opinion, gassers start to make sense only at 45~50cc. Again, in my point of view, DA would do more good by focusing on the "higher" end of the displacement range, like their rumored release of the 170cc. People seem to be "squeezing" the last bits of power from the 150's by using them on the ever larger models. A 170 makes a lot of sense there. That would be for me the right direction to go. Also because with the advances in construction techniques, the models are getting larger while keeping the same weight. I wouldn't be surprised to see 45%'rs weighing below 40 lbs being commonplace in the near future.