AW 100cc Extra 260 Setup

[1bwana1]

I got my new AeroWorks 100cc Extra 260 built and maidened this past weekend. Excellent quality ARF as always from AW. It took the normal (for me, because I'm slow) 20 hrs to assemble. My equipment is as follows:

DA-100 on stock exhaust.
Hitec 5955s on Ailerons and Elevators.
JR-8711 on rudder. I did a push/pull system so the rudder servo is mounted in the tail. Great job AW for having the mounting points pre done making this option easy.
Two Fromco 2600 for RX, One 2600 for Ignition
Fromeco Wolverine Switch for RX, Badger for Ignition
Smart-Fly SuperReg on RX, Smart-Fly Ignition Reg
Smart-Fly PowerExpander Sport.
All RX Leads from batteries/switch/reg are Deans connections
All Servo Extensions are soldered so no connector amp restrictions
AW Carbon Fiber options (main wing tube, rear stab tubes back ordered, main gear, rear gear).
Super Light weight 4 1/2" Carbon Fiber Spinner
Menz 27 X 10 wooden prop (very light)
AirWild MPL aluminum servo arms
H9 Titanium turnbuckles

The reason I ordered the CF parts is that I wanted to keep the plane reasonably light as it will primarily be a free style plane for me (IMAC backup). I even used covering to seal the motor box, and cannister tunnel openings rather than the provided ply pieces. My All Up Weight came in at 26lbs 12 1/2 oz. I was hoping for the lower end of 26lbs, but it was in the range of what I have heard flies well with this model. I was concerned with being tail heavy because of the rear mounted rudder servo, the aluminum stab tubes, and the fact that a great deal of my weight savings took place up front. To my surprise, I had to mount the the RX batteries at the very back of the rear tray, and my Powerbox, reg, and ignition battery also on the rear tray to acheive the recomended 3 1/4" CG as measured from the leading edge at the wing tips. I can't see how this would be acheived with cannisters up front, and the normal two servo Pull/Pull rudder setup that I have seen a lot of people running. Anyway, that's the setup I took to the field for the maiden.

The maiden went well, but the in my opinion the plane flew very nose heavy at the recommended CG. My criteria for proper balance is that the plane carries an inverted 45 degree upline hands off without climbing, or dropping the nose. It should also take just a suggestion (very, very light) of elevator to maintain level inverted flight. At the recomended CG it was not even close. The nose heavy tendencies also showed in strong coupling. Pulling to the canopy in both directions of knife edge, and in down lines. There was also some roll coupling with the rudder, but I doubt this is CG related. I started adding weights to the tail, but ran out of weights before I got to a proper CG. I then gave up on trimming for the day and just flew some fun flights. I have to say, this is a very fun airplane to fly. Nose heavy and all, it did incredible inverted flat spins. Elevators and harriers have just a touch of rock, that will probably go away as the CG is worked out, and the thing just loves to hover. I had a blast the rest of the day.

I can't stand the thought of adding weight, so I removed the weights from the tail, and built a tray behind the next former after the canopy former. I installed the two RX batteries on this tray. It added less than one oz to the plane, and moved the CG back to about 3.7". I went out and flew it again today. The clouds were very low today. In fact, the plane disapeared twice on not very tall up lines. Thank God for Hammer Head turns that pretty much assure the plane appears close to where it dissapeared. Given the conditions, I focused mostly on level flight, upright and inverted. Inverted still has a little too much stick for me. Short 45 degree inverted uplines still showed a slight drop in the nose. I mixed out the roll coupling with a 3 unit (JR-9303) Rudder to Aileron mix. With that, knife edges in both directions are getting real close to hands off with no Rudder to Elevator mix yet. Fun doing low knife edge passes the length of the field.

OK, so here is where you guys who have flown this plane for a while, and have it dialed perfectly can save me some time.

Where did you end you end up on CG? I'm pretty far back from recommended already, but I'm thinking I will still need to go back a little. I'm looking for a way to do it without adding weight.

My up lines are pretty good with a little pull to the left. Have you guys changed the thrust on the motor? I'm thinking a little more right, and maybe slightly more up?

The rolls are nice, but show a little more wobble, and drift, than I'd like. Have any of you found the need for aileron differential?

In short, where is your CG, and what mixes did you end up with?

I'm going to a freestyle event this weekend and am hoping your insights will shorten my trimming time, and allow more time for fun flying!

-STEVE-

[Rolling Thunder]

I removed the pull pull and went with a single 8711 in the tail. I don't like a neutral plane, my inverted 45 uplines require down elevator.

My R to E mix is very low 2%, it took very little downline mix T to down E, R to A is 5%.

I have only put 2 flights on it since I moved the rudder servos and installed the new EQ-6 power system. It works fine. I still haven't settled on throws yet.

[1bwana1]

Tony,
Thanks for the reply. You would probably like my plane at it's current CG. If I keep it there, my mixes will end up very close to yours. So from your response, I gather you made no changes to thrust and have no differential.

[Rolling Thunder]

I believe I have 1 degree more up then down for IMAC high rate 27 up 26 down. I also think I have a small shim of down thrust, but I don't remember. I know the uplines are straight. Different props will require different thrust lines. Mine is setup with a 28-10 Mejzlik.

[bodywerks]

	Quote:
	My up lines are pretty good with a little pull to the left. Have you guys changed the thrust on the motor? I'm thinking a little more right, and maybe slightly more up?

I had to add one 1/16" washer on the upper-left standoff, and two 1/16" washers on the lower left standoff. Resulting in about a degree more of both up and right thrust.

	Quote:
	The rolls are nice, but show a little more wobble, and drift, than I'd like. Have any of you found the need for aileron differential?

Yes, with a throw meter, you will probably want to start off with 1.5-2.0 degrees more up travel than down travel, based on about 35 degrees of travel. I never got mine perfect, but I was running crappy servos that weren't very accurate, so I didn't bother.

	Quote:
	Where did you end up on the CG?

I liked 3-5/8" for overall flying. Mine had very little coupling - about what Tony used for mixing is what I used.
As ar as CG issues, I can't help you there, mine was a first-run and tailheavy as hell with the BME 110.
I look forward to seeing it/you this weekend...

[mark786]

Steve,
Congratulations on the maiden and the new plane. I really like the new color scheme.
Can't help with trim, mine is the 75cc set up for IMAC.
Mark

[1bwana1]

Nick,
Thanks, I will be getting to El Centro about 8:00am. My guess is we'll spend more time just huckin around than trimming. See you tomorrow.

Tony,
Thanks for the update. I'm going to try a little differential befor I mess with thrust lines. I'll wait for adjusting thrust untill I'm done with the break in prop.

Mark,
I love the new color scheme. The 75cc with a DA-85 is a great setup!

[jwilliams]

I have been flying my 35% AW 260 for about 18 months now and I have put two rudder servos in the rear bays, moved the batteries about 6" behind the front of the turtle deck/hatch line is and it is still nose heavy. My next move is a DA85, plane flies pretty good precision and real good 3D. Overall quality is excellent.
Jeff W.

[dubd]

Steve, mine came out nose heavy too. Before the first flight I moved my 2 Fromeco 4 celll packs so they were next to my rudder servos. I moved my ignition battery so that it was next to my fuel tank. It flew great!