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Old 11-02-2007, 10:18 AM   #1
Zeeb
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Default One battery has a higher charge than the other.

Quick question here before I bother Jack again....

I've got some of the two cell 2150 Li-Ions. One is an older 2000 that's on the engine ignition, the other two are the newer 2150's I got these a few months back and hadn't used them as I was waiting on the new radio.

When I tried charging them, one battery would not play as the yellow charge lead was loose in the charger connector. I called the guys and they replaced the battery with a new one.

Now here's the concern;

The new battery charges to about .2 volts above the other battery and load tests with 1 amp at .45 volts higher than the one that's a few months older. When I first tried this, the difference was only about .25 volts. I called and talked to Jack and he said not to worry about it and use them for a bit. But now after using them for a bit, the difference is increasing, not decreasing.

The 2000 charges to 8.2 give or take a few hundreth's and load tests through the black lead at 7.50 volts. The first 2150 is almost exactly the same. The newer 2150 load tested at 7.96 after this last charge where it had been about 7.75 at first.

This doesn't seem kosher to me, got any ideas?

Thanks!
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

zeeb,

This is normal. Older one is getting a little weaker. The true reading is from the yellow lead as the black lead is always .2-.3 lower than the batteries due to the diode. I am using same battery 2000 on my ignition and actually your reading and mine are almost the same but this will not impose a problem to us because ignition demand is not much and the battery will not see 4 amp load! If battery was in a high draw application you need to change them when the cells get a little weak.

No worries.

Reza
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

Perhaps I didn't make my question/setup clear.

I've got two of the 2150's running the airframe with the new JR 2.4 stuff. This is a 50cc size model and the batts are running through a Smart-Fly BatShare. So what's happening is post flight, the power is being drawn down on the higher battery. I understand enough about electricity to know if the load gets up there a bunch, it should draw amperage from both batteries, but running on one most of the time kind of bugs me as the other battery and voltage regulator are basically just sitting there.

As for "older" batteries. I'm not concerned about the ignition battery which is older, but the 2150's were purchased direct from Duralite and I think were in the four month full warranty period or they wouldn't have replaced the one?

A few months difference in the age of the batteries shouldn't make a difference that I can see. What it looks like to me is that something has changed in the manufacturing, chemistry or something that allows this slightly newer battery to pack more punch?

1/2 a volt difference on a redundant systems seems like a lot, and yes I know there is approximately a .2 volt drop on the black lead, but as long as the difference is consistent between the two leads, which it is, I see no problem with using either one as long as that's kept in mind?

Thanks.

Oh, one other thing and it's part of the reason I have this concern. I've got an identical setup, two batts, two regs, BatShare on my 33% Edge only the batts are the 2800 four cells. When I charge those, they'll be within a tenth of a volt of each other and after flying as they start to discharge, they'll ususally be either identical or within a 1/100th of a volt of each other on the way down.

Last edited by Zeeb; 11-02-2007 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Added info
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

What charger are you using? On the new 2150s The difference you are seeing is most likely due to variation of the safety circuit. Charger is designed to stop the charge at 8.25-8.3, Circuits are designed to cut off charging at 8.4 in case charger didn't stop the charge in time. There is almost always a variation in these circuit, most of the time is not the cell. And to specifically answer your question on the cells, they have not changed in chemistry or productions! Same exact ones as used to be. 2 2150 on 50cc and even 2.4 is a great set up. Better way of checking to see how much more one battery is used during a flight than other would be charging both batteries to full with a charger that shows the capacity and see how much one takes to charge vs. other. I have never had a Battshare but there is always a small variation in electronic circuit that can cause one battery to discharge 50-100 mah more than the other per flight!

I think you are perfectly fine but Jack would be more than happy to speak with you if you want to call him.

Reza
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

It's the four port Duralite charger. There does seem to be a bit of difference in the various port outputs, but I spoke to Mark about that when I first started using the Duralite stuff some time ago. Along with that, there doesn't seem to be much friction on the plugs of the charger, but I've tried all the ports at one time or another with the #3 port consistently turning off before the others do i.e. I can switch a battery from the #3 port to another port and it will charge more. The #1 port seems to be the highest output using that method of switching plugs after a battery has finished charging.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

That's exactly right. Ports have variations. One puts out higher voltage than other but even though one seems to put out more charge than other, the amount that one charges more than other(s) is very insignificant, like Max 30-40 mah! Not much, because when your battery hits the 8.2 or so voltage the charge rate drops to less than .1 amh.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

The bat share will draw from the highest battery then start to draw from both when their voltage under load is equal. I would not be concerned. If you pull a heavy load the voltage under the strong pack will drop under load then if needed the additional current will come from the other battery. I personally don't use a bat share when using redundant batteries on a single receiver, because in my opinion it introduces a single point failure to an otherwise redundant system, I believe in(duplicate or eliminate any single point failure). Its almost impossible to get a requlator to match perfectly, even 100th of a volt difference it will draw on one battery more than the other. I typically have one battery require 1000+ mha to charge and the other require less than 100mha to charge, but to cycle the batteries evenly I switch them every 20 flights or so. This is not a problem on my dual receiver setups, because the sides of the plane are mechanically and electrically isolated so each battery is forced to power 1/2 of the servos. Like I saidd this is just the way I personally prefer to set up my stuff, just do what works for you.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

Well okay, I'll fly it some more and see what it does, it does kind of bug me.

Then of course I've been known to get a bit a*al about things at times....
So it may be a case of "over thinking" the situation??????

Thanks Reza and Dan!
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Old 11-02-2007, 12:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

You don't have a problem.......everything is working as it should.

The battshare draws from the highest battery. That way it equals your packs as you fly. This way one pack is not consistently drained while the other is a backup.

Also older batteries will lose some voltage capacity. I wouldn't worry about a thing right now as your voltages are well within the norms on charge and discharge after a flying.
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Old 11-02-2007, 05:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

I appreciate the input, perhaps I've just gotten spoiled by what the batteries do on my Edge. But I've got 7 Duralites now and they're all within just a really small margine of each other on nominal voltage and the 1 amp voltage check except this one. And yes, be it the BatShare or the usual tendency for the power to be drawn from the highest voltage pack, this one higher battery is the only one being used when I fly. I even bought the Duralite discharge unit and cycled the first 2150, it came up 1/10th of a volt...

Maybe the Edge setup is just a fluke an now I'm dealing with what I see folks talking about all the time?

Any way, thanks Sam....
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Old 11-02-2007, 06:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

No problem.....I'm sure over some more time what you will see is that the capacities will equal out as the higher one will get used more.

Have you also tried switching the battery inputs on the battshare or measuring the outputs for voltage? Maybe the unit is malfunctioning and always drawing from one side. Just a thought
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Old 11-02-2007, 06:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: One battery has a higher charge than the other.

Yes I've tried switching stuff around and measuring directly off the batteries as well as through the switches. I had a problem with the single switch on my last 50 size model that Jack pointed out to me. I thought it was a battery problem and it turned out to be the switch, that's why this one's got two.....

Yeah this power system is way overkill for a 50cc size, but I feel better especially with the JR 2.4 radio.
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