Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping with XPS

[jonkoppisch]

	Quote:
	XPS -High noise, sluggish controls.....small antenna may not be for all areas (so use new antenna) -freq hop does not happen in sudden noise rise (like 2.4 cameras)........Software fix coming -Problems understanding how to program your RX....buy the XDP device to make it easier but it can still be done without it. Spektrum -battery volt issue.....buy external capictor and realize min voltage amount -reboot time...After july 07 all RX's have a much faster reboot time (no word yet on if you can get older rx's fixed for free or at all) -Sometimes it binds sometimes it doesn't.....no fix or cause determined yet FASST -Unique ID on 2 radios.....looking into this claim -Trims change on models......should be in software fix avail 8 Jan

You need to put the battery issue on xps as well.... At least that's what they claim whenever there's any problem!!!!!

[Woketman]

What is this new issue with Futaba's FASST? I have not heard about one?

Thanks.

[1bwana1]

Sam,
I will be at the AMA convention for two full days. I plan on asking each vendor a ton of questions. Give me your list and I'll ask. In fact, anyone out there who wants me to ask a vendor a question, post it here, and I'll ask them. It must be a technical question, not political, and phrased in a non judgemental way. I'll post the final list before I go, and the answers when I get back.

Your intrepid investigative reporter,

-STEVE-

(I kinda like the trench coat look...)

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Woketman
	What is this new issue with Futaba's FASST? I have not heard about one? Thanks.

There are a couple of threads running over on RCU but in a nutshell...

*ALLEGEDLY*...

Someone flying FASST lost a plane (Extra 260?) when another FASST user turned on their transmitter.

Turns out that they found that the receiver in the 260 would respond to both transmitters -- something that should (in theory) be impossible unless the two transmitters have the same ID number.

One transmitter is a 6EX the other a 7C (both 2.4GHz obviously) but that shouldn't make any difference.

Here are some factors to consider in respect to this report:

A couple of those who claim to be affected or witness to the event are new-signups over at RCU and another has only 1 post to their name.

No evidence, other than the testimony of those posting (ie: no video or other data) has yet been forthcoming.

There has been some speculation as to how this impossible situation could occur...

It's always possible that somehow that both the 6EX and 7C transmitters have been given the same sequence of ID numbers and these guys were just unlucky enough to find two matching IDs at the same field on the same day. I guess this could have happened if someone hadn't properly seeded the software that programs the transmitter firmware. That'd be a bit of a nightmare for Futaba since it would require recalling all the 6EX or 7C 2.4GHz systems to reset the IDs and avoid future potential conflict.

Someone else suggested that their 6EX must have reverted to a default "factory-test" ID# when the battery was allowed to run right down because it would no longer talk to their receivers and had to be rebound.

I'd say that at this stage, what's needed is a good forensic investigation of all the gear involved (preferably overseen by a third party) so that the truth can come out.

It's is always possible that this is a hoax post made by someone just trying to damage Futaba's reputation, however it could also be genuine and thus represents a threat to the trustworthiness of the 2.4GHz gear that Futaba is presently shipping.

As I've said before, *all* the 2.4GHz systems *will* have issues during these early days. The making or breaking of a brand will depend on how these issues are handled.

[Mithrandir]

The latest update is posted on the FUTABA sites........ I just downloaded it....
http://www.14mz.com/forum/downloads....bb8891f38c24cd

FUTABA Acknowledged this error....

The antennas are only about an inch'n'a'half long, but on the end of about 6 inches of coaxial cable..... I fly mostly Giant scale 40% planes... I would find a longer coax lead to help antenna placement.... but there is a Db loss with each inch of coax... significant loss??? I dunno



I am a TEAM FUTABA Pilot... Yes...I WILL test this system in somewhat more expendable planes for some time before I trust it in a big $5K plane. Mostly because of all the issues with 2.4 in general... but also... it is new to me! I may be making some fundamentally stupid mistakes with the installation.... and playing with it in progressively more sophisticated models is a way to take baby steps in the learning curve rather then a big step... (off a cliff! lol)
I have 1 flight on my system up to today... it was flawless to the edge of my viability... I even tossed it on the floor amongst two pther 2.4 Ghz products with no detectable problems...

We certainly live in interesting times!

[sweetpea]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jonkoppisch
	You need to put the battery issue on xps as well.... At least that's what they claim whenever there's any problem!!!!!

Yes I could, but XPS cutoff voltage is lower than Spektrum and XPS states they are planning to make it even lower in the future. Spektrum has no such plans that they have announced. I would of course have to add this to FASST as well since they also have a cutoff voltage, but FASST is even lower.

I'm trying to compare faults that are mostly unique to each system. Not something common, and if it is common show the worst of the 3.


I'll probably work in my spare time on some fact sheets for install on both XPS and Spektrum (since I own them). Then someone with FASST experience can fill in that info matching it. No drama or anything like that. Hard facts, so the user can decide which faults or features they are willing to accept and use.

[sweetpea]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	Sam, I will be at the AMA convention for two full days. I plan on asking each vendor a ton of questions. Give me your list and I'll ask. In fact, anyone out there who wants me to ask a vendor a question, post it here, and I'll ask them. It must be a technical question, not political, and phrased in a non judgemental way. I'll post the final list before I go, and the answers when I get back. Your intrepid investigative reporter, -STEVE- (I kinda like the trench coat look...)

Steve--your on. I'll think of my questions and try to type them up and PM you.

Depends on my work load this week.

[jonkoppisch]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpea
	Yes I could, but XPS cutoff voltage is lower than Spektrum and XPS states they are planning to make it even lower in the future. Spektrum has no such plans that they have announced. I would of course have to add this to FASST as well since they also have a cutoff voltage, but FASST is even lower. I'm trying to compare faults that are mostly unique to each system. Not something common, and if it is common show the worst of the 3. I'll probably work in my spare time on some fact sheets for install on both XPS and Spektrum (since I own them). Then someone with FASST experience can fill in that info matching it. No drama or anything like that. Hard facts, so the user can decide which faults or features they are willing to accept and use.

Since you used the example though of that being a major spektrum problem & since xps claims that's a major problem, as that's what they always say whenever there's a problem, period... then it should be added just like with spektrum... IE, xps claims that's the #1 reason for any loss so it should be added to xps!!!

[sweetpea]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jonkoppisch
	Since you used the example though of that being a major spektrum problem & since xps claims that's a major problem, as that's what they always say whenever there's a problem, period... then it should be added just like with spektrum... IE, xps claims that's the #1 reason for any loss so it should be added to xps!!!

This is the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid. Blatant bashing. XPS may have said that in your case (I assume they did since your hostile about it) but they didn't say it in my crash so your blanket..."thats what XPS says whenever there is a problem, period" is false.

I do agree with them that in the 2.4 realm.....the #1 cause of crashes has been voltage and reboots. This may slowly change as other causes are determined but the facts are people crashed because of poor voltage and reboots on all the systems (except maybe FASST because it wasn't out at that time)


instead of listing voltage as a fault....I'll list the cutoff voltages. I'll include PCM in this. That way the user can determine the fault.

I'm not playing the user said or the dealer said......Facts only. The voltage cutoff is a set number for each manufacturer. What anyone choses to do with that number is what it is.

IMHO......if your flying planes and get to the cutoff voltage you have other issues that need to be resolved.

[jonkoppisch]

Just curious why you didn't seem to have a problem listing it as a fault with spektrum...

XPS says that it's a problem so that should be good enough...

I guess a good way around it is to just list the cutoff voltages

[sweetpea]

For no reason other than Spektrum has the highest cutoff voltage and the longest reboot time due to it. (at least it did until July).

See this is where things are going to complicated fast. Everyone remembers the intial Version of each device.

Spektrum has had about 4 or 5 updates that I can recall quickly
XPS has had at least 3 updates
FASST is updating 1 and everyone is looking into the unique ID to see what happened.

What is a problem today may not be tomorrow or even 15mins from now with downloadable software updates. Let alone new features etc. And half the time they may not even tell us there was a problem...only some new update that we have to have (sounds alot like microsoft)

I think a spreadsheet of past and current versions would help ease the understanding.

[Pale Rider]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpea
	For no reason other than Spektrum has the highest cutoff voltage and the longest reboot time due to it. (at least it did until July).

How does it compare now after they redesigned the rx's ?

[jonkoppisch]

Doesn't really matter who has the highest, not a contest. It's a matter of what they report the problem to be. That qualifies spektrum and xps. So far, I don't believe futaba has reported voltage being a problem. They probably wont due to them having a failsafe setting for battery voltage...

[Pale Rider]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jonkoppisch
	Doesn't really matter who has the highest, not a contest. It's a matter of what they report the problem to be. That qualifies spektrum and xps. So far, I don't believe futaba has reported voltage being a problem. They probably wont due to them having a failsafe setting for battery voltage...

Not saying its a contest but since everybody else makes it one I was just curious about how close they are now..

[sweetpea]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Pale Rider
	How does it compare now after they redesigned the rx's ?

I don't think Spektrum changed their cutoff voltage( I need to research that), only once it does cutoff the system looks for the last 2 channels and the reboot time has decreased. So that is more inline with the other two.

	Quote: Originally Posted by jonkoppisch
	Doesn't really matter who has the highest, not a contest. It's a matter of what they report the problem to be. That qualifies spektrum and xps. So far, I don't believe futaba has reported voltage being a problem. They probably wont due to them having a failsafe setting for battery voltage...

None of this is a contest. Just specs about each system. Futaba may not have reports because it was out way after all the battery issues and now its more common knowledge from everyone freaking out online about it.

Do you know how long the system is in failsafe when the low cutoff is hit? If its long enough you may crash anyways.

Voltage is an issue on all 3 systems. But Spektrum so far has the worst voltage issue. Something electric fliers might like to know before they purchase a system.

I know you now hate XPS but try to look at the specs and be objective. We are trying to educate people (at least that is what Xjet set out to do, right?) about the pros and cons of each system.

If I were FASST I'd say my pro is the lowest cutoff voltage. But it still has one, doesn't matter if the RX goes failsafe or goes crazy or shut downs....you still have no control of your aircraft. So its a con.....but a pro over the other 2.