Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping with XPS

[1bwana1]

All the XPS stuff aside, we should welcome the new posters to the FG site. I hope they spend some time, and join in some other discussions. We have a great community developing here, and everyone is welcome. Thanks for stopping by guys!

[sweetpea]

Agreed Steve.


I'd also like to state it took quite ahwile for actual video proof of no hopping to show on the net. I would expect the same type delay of real hopping to show. (I'm not talking about Manufacturer results but results from us the modelers)

[JEFFRO503]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	There IS a point you are missing here. Of those who own XPS, how many of them do you think actually get online at Flying Giants to post their experience? I would put a reasonable percent at much less than 10%. Frankly, the dollar cost is just a number. You paint the picture as if the RCG guys are not in the same class, and are all "buddy-buddy" with JD. I would state that the number of folks who actively participate in the XPS forum who even KNOW JD is less than the number on one hand. I for one, do not know him. Hop? With something like this system, you will find it much easier to "prove" instances of not hopping than to find instances of hopping. Just because you cannot find that instance of "hop" does NOT make it a non=event. I sure would like to SEE different, but really, it COULD be that the parameters have not been met in the tests so far. If you feel that lack of "proof" matters to YOU, get some other system. For me, it flies my planes great. I am beginning to actively research other brands based upon service much more so than the "hop." Bottom line? Go through and actually COUNT the numbers of posters who had good experiences, and actually COUNT the numbers of posters who had bad experiences. I have little doubt that the bad will either equal or outweigh the good posters. That does not mean that the system has a 50% or greater failure rate. It only means that those who desire to post have that rate. Which side of the fence do you think is more apt to post? Those with troubles with the system. Post counts are meaningless. If you like XPS, fly with it. If you don't, pick something else, and for goodness sakes, MOVE ON! If anyone stays this BH over an R/C system for as long as some of you have, you REALLY need to do a little self-analysis. It ain't healthy.

I couldn't possibly do this.....why? Because all the guys over at RCG that "had problems".....got their threads deleted!!!


I have seriously spent a lot of time over at RCG , and was reading through a brand new thread......only to see it was deleted by the moderator <<<< JIM , which is totally unfair!! I have seen SO MANY threads get deleted right after they had been posted , it was crazy!


This is what gets me all fired up inside. Is the fact that the guys who praise it are allowed to stay , and the guys who have condemed it , or better yet , just want clarification on things........get their posts deleted!!

It's almost as bad as some stupid religious cult.....at least thats' the way it looks on the outside.


Here on FG , if there is a problem with a system , motor , aircraft , or anything , Max and the other Mods usually let it slide until the company can come in and explain things. Unlike RCG , they give the creator of the product , FULL disclosure of HIS THREAD , which is unfair! It's unfair for everyone , not just the guys who had problems with the system , but new potential buyers.....whom are being mislead!!

do you understand what i'm saying? I have read through a bunch of posts in this thread alone , along with many other posts , of people losing their very high dollar aircraft to this system. That is really sad.


The saddest thing about this entire argument ( and yes it's an argument ) , is that some of these poor folks , poored everything they have into some of these aircraft , only to be shot down by some inferior system.


It makes people think twice about staying in this hobby......."is it worth it??" This system ( XPS ) is ( in my opinion ) bad for this hobby. It's turning certain people away. Even if most are only turned away for a while , until they can afford the time and money to build another aircraft.......you are still losing some good flying buddies at your fields


Now , as far as "counting the number of people that are happy , compared to the amount of people who are unhappy". You make it sound like all the guys who fly with XPS don't post their comments on the system? Are you saying that everyone who flies with Fasst , JR and Spektrum do all the posting?? I don't get this question. If only 10% of the pilots out there post......then you take that 10% and add up the two different groups , it's that simple. BUT since almost every single questionable thread at RCG is and was deleted......how can a person make an honest count on this?

Also......i was in no way trying to slam on RCG , i go there ( along with the other flying sites) almost every day. And Wrightme , you are correct on saying that a persons $300.00 airplane can be worth as much as someonelses big expensive 40%.


I think it kind of hits a little harder over here though , because some guys put more than what they can actually afford into some of these airplanes. I know i do. It can really hit the wallet hard , but to see into go into the ground by something that wasn't your fault , can be a really bad thing.

i'm done ranting............

[xed]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	Hop? With something like this system, you will find it much easier to "prove" instances of not hopping than to find instances of hopping. Just because you cannot find that instance of "hop" does NOT make it a non=event. I sure would like to SEE different, but really, it COULD be that the parameters have not been met in the tests so far. If you feel that lack of "proof" matters to YOU, get some other system. For me, it flies my planes great. I am beginning to actively research other brands based upon service much more so than the "hop."

It has been proven and documented by multiple testers (i.e. more than ONE) where the noise floor was increased gradually to the point where XPS simply went into lockout rather than hopping to a different channel as advertised.

If it will only hop when there is a total eclipse of the moon and the remaining 99% of the time your model eats dirt, then you have been misled into believing that the "hopping" feature with "Patents Pending" was the be-all-end-all-of-extreme-radio-link-technology. In the end, if it does not hop when it is pertentent to, it just becomes false advertising/misleading the customer/marketing.

[chewy]

	Quote: Originally Posted by xed
	It has been proven and documented by multiple testers (i.e. more than ONE) where the noise floor was increased gradually to the point where XPS simply went into lockout rather than hopping to a different channel as advertised. If it will only hop when there is a total eclipse of the moon and the remaining 99% of the time your model eats dirt, then you have been misled into believing that the "hopping" feature with "Patents Pending" was the be-all-end-all-of-extreme-radio-link-technology. In the end, if it does not hop when it is pertentent to, it just becomes false advertising/misleading the customer/marketing.

Right on, Xed. XPS must be proven to not just hop, but to hop in a USEFUL manner. It must hop when it needs to in order to save the airplane, not just when the moon is blue or green or when there is an eclipse.

Otherwise, its useless bs. I have been using ASSAN and I have no complaints against it. It doesn't hop either. Why don't I complain? Because it didn't promise me that it would, and that is reflected in its pricing. So, I use it only where appropriate: in the parkfliers in benign environments.

chewy

[excelpoint]

What I see on this thread is a lot of people who seem to have forgotten that the Manufacturer himself admitted to the problem and promised a software update to fix it. Unless I missed it the software update never happened. That alone would turn me away from his product.

[ricoalonso]

FYI: XPS made this announcement in their forum at RCG... (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839099) not sure if said 'firmware upgrade' is one with the 'hopping fix'... here's what it says:

"Discussion - Weak Signals Model Show - Toledo

One year, and tens of thousands of systems sold later, XPS returns to the Toledo show. This is the show where we sold our first system.

We will be offering firmware upgrades to anyone who brings their systems with them. No charge of course!

We will be showing some new products. Please stop by and say hi!"

^R^

[Pale Rider]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	the weird part is , that the last 30 pages or so of this thread has XPS being defended by numerous guys who are almost "ALL" new members , which have pretty much only posted in THIS THREAD. maybe a little JD and friends spamming going on?? just a thought.

LOL--you noticed that too huh?

[socalsal]

Hi, I'm a new guy to this site. That said does any other 2.4 do this "hopping" that everybody seems to be all up in a tizzy about? Is it just the fact that XPS said it would hop and no one can get it to? is this all there is to this?. Or are there other problems with this system? I have no clue as to what is so bad about XPS I have two planes on XPS and one on Futaba. So far I have had no problems with either. All three planes are in the $6500-7000 range as far as cost or parts. I fly in the eastern part of San Diego county. Less tha 3/4 of a mile as the bird flys there is one of the tallest mountains in the county. On top of this "hill" are 10-15 microwave repeters, tv station broadcast towers, fire and police broadcast towers and one for some type of FAA transmitting. I don't even know if they broadcast in a range that may or may not interfere with the 2.4 range but if they do nothing has ever happened to my radios. Should I throw out the XPS???

[Kiwi]

Socalsal,

The issue most people have with XPS is the simple fact that it has no redundancy. That is if you get swiped by some noise on the 2.4Ghz band there's a pretty good chance your pride and joy will hit the dirt.

Now FUTABA FASST constantly hops, something like every 8 Milliseconds and it pre scans where its going to so if the next intended channel is too noisy it misses it and keeps going. So does it hop?? It never stops.

SPEKTRUM on the other hand uses two discreet channels normally well spaced apart so if one channel gets a hit there is the other one already hooked up and running to keep the data link intact. An easy way to look at SPEKTRUM is it is two XPS systems running on the same radio at the same time. If one goes down you still have the the other so its twice as robust. It does not hop, it does not need to hop and it is not advertised to hop either. Plus it have a myriad of other safety features like model select, good antenna diversity (you can run up to four antennas on one receiver)

So FASST and SPEKTRUM have a lot of added safety factors built in that XPS cant match. XPS and ASSAN are actually in the same league. Single channel systems and nothing more.

I cant say dont use any of the brands but I do know its terribly hard to reason with yourself why you tried to save a $50 bill and lost your $5000 airplane. The maths dont compute to me.

But if you have a super clean flying environment far away from microwave dishes and large antennas then your likely never going to have an issue, unless you suffer from shielding. Thats when your antenna gets hidden behind the motor or the fuel tank and then your in deep pooh once again.

I'm not against XPS at all but I just will not use it given the far superior alternatives available.

As for 900 Mhz thats a joke here as the mobile phone system runs on 900 Mhz here so it will never ever fly.

[jonkoppisch]

This is good...

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/xpshopping.shtml

[buttface]

We all need to file a class action suit against JD (XPS) and all of his false claims.I got some lawyers that will tear into him like a pack of wolves!!( just a side note:there not the same wolves I always throw Jonkoppisch to, they're meaner!)
lets have a pole on who all is in favor.

By the way ,why dose the XPS stuff look like a Dollar Store product.It just has that appearance to me.

[wrightme]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	I couldn't possibly do this.....why? Because all the guys over at RCG that "had problems".....got their threads deleted!!!

Yep. And I am glad they did get deleted. They could have stayed, along with the information in those threads. The folks with issues could NOT stay civil, and would repeat the same heartburn over and over and over. Someone looking for actual information would see their question, and possible answers get turned in to a bickering contest. Folks who like the product were at fault in this exchange also.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	I have seriously spent a lot of time over at RCG , and was reading through a brand new thread......only to see it was deleted by the moderator <<<< JIM , which is totally unfair!! I have seen SO MANY threads get deleted right after they had been posted , it was crazy!

Yes, crazy. Once a person complained about losing a model, they would NOT stop. The threads deserved to be deleted.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	This is what gets me all fired up inside. Is the fact that the guys who praise it are allowed to stay , and the guys who have condemed it , or better yet , just want clarification on things........get their posts deleted!!

See above. Posts and threads that stayed civil usually stay. And frankly, it IS his forum to do with as he sees fit. Those who wished to discuss over and over and over again about their problems were free to clutter the General Radio forum.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	Here on FG , if there is a problem with a system , motor , aircraft , or anything , Max and the other Mods usually let it slide until the company can come in and explain things. Unlike RCG , they give the creator of the product , FULL disclosure of HIS THREAD , which is unfair! It's unfair for everyone , not just the guys who had problems with the system , but new potential buyers.....whom are being mislead!!

It is only unfair if RCG also deleted negative posts in all the forums, which they do not. Go over there and see how easy it is to complain about a Hitec product in that Vendor forum........

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	do you understand what i'm saying? I have read through a bunch of posts in this thread alone , along with many other posts , of people losing their very high dollar aircraft to this system. That is really sad.

Yes, it is sad. People who cannot afford to lose a high dollar aircraft should take up knitting. It is a remote control vehicle, and it isn't perfect, no matter which control system you purchase. Sometime, someday, each hobbyist in this hobby WILL crash. Sometimes due to equipment failure, poor equipment design, poor installation, battery failure, structural fatigue or failure, the list goes on. Crashes due to R/C link loss are nothing new.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	The saddest thing about this entire argument ( and yes it's an argument ) , is that some of these poor folks , poored everything they have into some of these aircraft , only to be shot down by some inferior system.

The real truth is that you do not KNOW that.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	I think it kind of hits a little harder over here though , because some guys put more than what they can actually afford into some of these airplanes. I know i do. It can really hit the wallet hard , but to see into go into the ground by something that wasn't your fault , can be a really bad thing.

So then blame the radio.......

You may wish to re-read my post, and take it into context. It was in response to the post count in this thread, on Flying Giants, and was NOT about the post count on RCG in any way.

I am not knocking FG, or you. But seriously, you are taking my comments out of context, and the real reality of this is that what you see here is a small number of people with crashes, many of them unexplained. You cannot count those people, and expect to get a meaningful datum out of it. Each time a person puts a plane in the air with a remote control system, there is a chance it will crash. It happens. Each person who does this hobby should understand that it can, and most likely will happen to them at some point.

[wrightme]

	Quote: Originally Posted by xed
	It has been proven and documented by multiple testers (i.e. more than ONE) where the noise floor was increased gradually to the point where XPS simply went into lockout rather than hopping to a different channel as advertised. If it will only hop when there is a total eclipse of the moon and the remaining 99% of the time your model eats dirt, then you have been misled into believing that the "hopping" feature with "Patents Pending" was the be-all-end-all-of-extreme-radio-link-technology. In the end, if it does not hop when it is pertentent to, it just becomes false advertising/misleading the customer/marketing.

You know, that "eclipse of the moon..." statement just makes no sense at all.......
It is also a decent example of the posts that would get threads deleted in the XPS Vendor forum on RCG.

[Chris F]

What a pity this thread has been hijacked by the XPS FB club. I hope it stops because this is the only place I can find that has an unbiased view of the XPS product. I have found FG a fantastic resource which has helped me decide which 2.4 system to try and I thank everyone who has helped by posting factual and non-emotive information, I have learned a lot!