Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping with XPS

[JEFFRO503]

Wrightme.....It was never anything peronally against you. So i hope you didn't take it that way , and if you did i am sorry , i did not mean it to come out that way.

with that being said.......from all the reading i have done here on FG , RCU , RCG , Flying ****** , DOD , and maybe a few other. When there always seemed to be an "unexplained crash" , it seemd like in a lot of those wrecks , they we're using an XPS system. Not ALL of them , i totally understand that. It just seems like that a lot of people we're having problems with this system. I think this is why XJET and KIWI decided to do these tests.

so far , the only system to get tested by them was the XPS system. They found that no matter what they did , they could not get it to hop. I think they we're planning on testing the Fasst system and the JR/spektrum system as well. ( in fact i think somebody already did....can't remember) But i'm interested in what they find with those systems.

I haven't heard of one loss of an aircraft from anyone with a Fasst system. There could be , but i just haven't seen the thread. And i know that Spektrum did lose a few aircraft , but they had found out later about it going into a "brownout" below a certain voltage.


all i'm saying is , that there are a lot of people who have been happy with XPS , because they have never had a problem. But there are quite a few guys who "did" have problems.


There is one thread i remember really well. Some guy in here had like 100+ flights on his 40% aircraft. He hooked up the XPS , did a ground check and everything checked out great. he mentioned that he'd been flying 72mhz for years , and never had a problem , but wanted to jump on the 2.4 train.


First flight report was he was getting hit after just a few minutes of flying , and tried to bring her in. On approach , he was cruising in about 15' off the deck , and it went into total lockout , nose dived and had to pick up the pieces in a garbage bag.


JD mentioned he thought the guy had placed the receiver in the wrong spot. But the guy set it up exactly like he was told to do from JD and the XPS guide.

I saw a post from JD saying that he had thought that the receiver got locked out , because it was behind the motor. "behind the motor"?? isn't that where every receiver is located? It really should matter to much where you have the receiver as long as you have it far enough away from the exhaust , batteries , and any servo's which might cause a problem.


anyways......I'm going off on all this from everything i have read on all the forums , from numerous amounts of people. I never bought an XPS system , because within the first month or so , i started reading reports of downed aircraft , or aircraft that we're barley saved , but we're being locked out. So i decided to wait for the Fasst system.

And again man.....this was never anything personal against you. It was a way for me to vent a little bit of my anger for the guys who used XPS and lost there airplane. Jesus , i feel sorry for some of those guys.

[DesertHucker]

	Quote: Originally Posted by buttface
	We all need to file a class action suit against JD (XPS) and all of his false claims.I got some lawyers that will tear into him like a pack of wolves!!( just a side note:there not the same wolves I always throw Jonkoppisch to, they're meaner!) lets have a pole on who all is in favor. By the way ,why dose the XPS stuff look like a Dollar Store product.It just has that appearance to me.

Buttface PM me if it gets serious I will, be in it.

Loza

[BaldEagel]

Wrightme

Please explain what any of your comments contribute to the "Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping" thread? you have given us no test data or information that would change the opinion of anyone who has had a problem, all you have done as far as I can see is contradicted.

Please explain your purpose on this thread? and please do not say its giving a ballanced view.

Mike

[buttface]

Blah...blah...blah we all hate XPS. Just let it die.........

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	There IS a point you are missing here. Of those who own XPS, how many of them do you think actually get online at Flying Giants to post their experience? I would put a reasonable percent at much less than 10%. Frankly, the dollar cost is just a number. You paint the picture as if the RCG guys are not in the same class, and are all "buddy-buddy" with JD. I would state that the number of folks who actively participate in the XPS forum who even KNOW JD is less than the number on one hand. I for one, do not know him. Hop? With something like this system, you will find it much easier to "prove" instances of not hopping than to find instances of hopping. Just because you cannot find that instance of "hop" does NOT make it a non=event. I sure would like to SEE different, but really, it COULD be that the parameters have not been met in the tests so far. If you feel that lack of "proof" matters to YOU, get some other system. For me, it flies my planes great. I am beginning to actively research other brands based upon service much more so than the "hop." Bottom line? Go through and actually COUNT the numbers of posters who had good experiences, and actually COUNT the numbers of posters who had bad experiences. I have little doubt that the bad will either equal or outweigh the good posters. That does not mean that the system has a 50% or greater failure rate. It only means that those who desire to post have that rate. Which side of the fence do you think is more apt to post? Those with troubles with the system. Post counts are meaningless. If you like XPS, fly with it. If you don't, pick something else, and for goodness sakes, MOVE ON! If anyone stays this BH over an R/C system for as long as some of you have, you REALLY need to do a little self-analysis. It ain't healthy.

Okay, as a preamble, this is NOT to get into an argument with Wrightme, but to point out some glaringly OBVIOUS points that he attempted to make, that are untenable.

First off. . ONE crash due to XPS not hopping is TOO MANY I don't care what kind of plane it's in. . no hop causing a crash is a BAD thing. Wrightme, you really should admit this. . it's the only responsible way to look at it.

Secondly, in ANY scientific evalutaion of an item, a feature that cannot be MADE to function is no longer a feature. Ergo, if no one can MAKE XPS "hop" then it does not hop. . period.. . . Wrightme, I'm sure, being a logical person, that you would agree with this.

Thirdly. . it has been stated at least 10 times in this thread, and in many other places in the other RC Forum sites, that if Jim Drew could SHOW XPS hopping, we'd ALL shut up. You know how easy it would be to quell this entire discussion and render it a non-factor? Simply hook up the equipment and a video recorder, PROVE it hops, even once would do a lot of good, but several times would be better, and then everyone shuts up. You know what. . . if I was Jim, I'd have done this AGES ago. . I'd have it on my web site. . I'd be showing the world what kind of a genius I was. .I'd be putting the rest of the RC market out of business on 2.4 by proving that not only did my system work, it worked BETTER, and for less money, than my competition. Talk about a great marketing coup!!! But. . NOOOOOO. . .

Wrightme, could you explain why any business man would forego proving their system worked?? If not, then I'm sure you would agree this is a big problem for JD.

So, logically, with no PROOF that it will hop. . and tons of proof that it will NOT. . what is the SCIENTIFIC and LOGICAL conclusion that any responsible and intelligent person going to come to? It DOES NOT HOP.

And THAT, Wrightme, is the problem. . we have been lied to. . . can you prove otherwise? Can Jim Drew PROVE otherwise??? Can ANYONE PROVE IT?? If someone lies to me, I refuse to do business with him, and if he lies to my fellow modelers, I will cut the throat of his business if possible. I think most modelers are of similar attitude in this regard.

Most of what you posted puts FAITH ahead of REASON. Reasoning, thinking, and logical people look at what has gone on with XPS, and see it for what it is. It does not matter if you know JD personally or not. If you support his products beyond the call of logical and scientific evidence to the contrary of his claims, then you are his buddy. And if you question his products ability to work as advertised, you are entirely correct to do so.

Let's ask ourselves something here. . you have a complaint/problem with a product. .you get an answer to your question that is condenscending, lacks logic, and basically says "stuff it" .. I've seen some of these posts/threads that JD has deleted . .most were a lot less offensive than many I've seen here on FG. . but they were deleted. I'd like Wrightme to explain why JD would delete a post/thread, instead of just handling the matter in a straightforward manner, and resolving the problem. There is nothing more effective than ANSWERING the question, no matter how offensively the question is asked. Perhaps people became upset because JD has NEVER truly answered the questions he has been asked. I can hardly blame them.

This is not a court of law. . this is a court of PROOF. Unlike religion, where one must have Faith, this entire episode surrounding XPS should be founded on FACTS, and proof of the features Jim Drew has advertised. Here are the facts: XPS locks out, it's proven. . . . . no one can MAKE it frequency hop, it's proven. . . Jim Drew ADMITS there can be problems with the system . .it's in writing. . . . Jim Drew CANNOT show us that it hops, we'll just infer this one since he has not done so. . call it circumstantial evidence. . . . . . therefore JD has Lied to myself and my fellow modelers. . let's call it like it is.

Now, what do you think I am going to try to do to his business???

Think about it . .ONE post from Jim Drew. . . just one, showing XPS hopping in a scientifically controlled environment, would have ended this entire debacle a YEAR ago, and he'd be a hero, not a villain. Everyone has given him every opportunity to do so, yet he still refuses to. With all that pressure on him, there can be only one reason why he has not done so. . he just CAN'T. I guess it will take a court of law to finally make him SHOW us that it hops.



In closing. . any Class Action taken against XPS should be on it's own thread, separate from this one, or kept in the courts, where it belongs. Let's try to keep this civil. . . .If Jim's supporters, or the people who support XPS wish to express their views, they have every right to do so, just as those who have problems with it have every right to give their opinions as well.

PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL.

[JEFFRO503]

Great post KRISW!!


This is what i think JD should do.

1.) first of all.....fix the system! Even if it needs to be totally revised so it works the way "he said it should"......you know , HOP!

2.) take a little finacial hit , and refund the people's money whom want to turn in his equipment . In Wrightme's mind.....there are only but a few people right? So we're only looking at a few systems being returned......correct? I think there is a buttload , but that's my opinion.


3. If he follows the first two steps , he "could" possibly totally redeem himself and stay involved in this hobby for a very long time. If the first two steps aren't taken correctly , i feel that XPS will be shunned by most of the RC community .....therefore be run out of business.



I mean hell.......if only a few people are unhappy , and want to return the system for a full refund......that's not a big hit at all.....is it? I think it would be a small price to pay to clear your name a little.


If he has to refund lets say 10 systems......BIG DEAL! Look how much somebody goes in the hole when they lose a 40% aircraft. God forbid it didn't hit anyone on the way in!

[JEFFRO503]

Question :

This is flying giants .....so why is the word giants being ****** on this site? I thought only RCU did this?

look at my previous post #856 ***??

weird....it didn't do it on this reply hmm??

[GBR2]

Personally, I'm sure that the XPS system does hop, it is just that it does not do so under the circumstances that most people think that it should hop, such as the test that Tycho did. It appears that the hopping ability is tied to some mysterious set of circumstances that for whatever reason, XPS will not divulge. I know that LOTS of people use the system and that it does work but I have enough doubts in my own mind about the usefulness of the XPS hopping redundancy that I have essentially mothballed the small amount of equipment I did buy. I do plan to use it but only in the least expensive of aircraft that I intend to build, probably some foamy thing. As to another 2.4 system, I've moved on to something else where the lack of possible reduncdancy is not in question. Perhaps XPS can get it all sorted out, perhaps not. The system is still useable but the consumer should be aware of possible limitations of the system before employing it.

[jonkoppisch]

	Quote: Originally Posted by GBR2
	.... The system is still useable but the consumer should be aware of possible limitations of the system before employing it.

Wish that I would have had that opportunity...

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	Question : This is flying giants .....so why is the word giants being ****** on this site? I thought only RCU did this? look at my previous post #856 ***?? weird....it didn't do it on this reply hmm??

****** Is Cir kus, the former name associated with the site which Max had started with a couple of people. It is now associated with RCU, but I think we all understand why it would not be a welcome term on this site.

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JEFFRO503
	Great post KRISW!! This is what i think JD should do. 1.) first of all.....fix the system! Even if it needs to be totally revised so it works the way "he said it should"......you know , HOP! 2.) take a little finacial hit , and refund the people's money whom want to turn in his equipment . In Wrightme's mind.....there are only but a few people right? So we're only looking at a few systems being returned......correct? I think there is a buttload , but that's my opinion. 3. If he follows the first two steps , he "could" possibly totally redeem himself and stay involved in this hobby for a very long time. If the first two steps aren't taken correctly , i feel that XPS will be shunned by most of the RC community .....therefore be run out of business. I mean hell.......if only a few people are unhappy , and want to return the system for a full refund......that's not a big hit at all.....is it? I think it would be a small price to pay to clear your name a little. If he has to refund lets say 10 systems......BIG DEAL! Look how much somebody goes in the hole when they lose a 40% aircraft. God forbid it didn't hit anyone on the way in!

Jeffrro. . refunding a customers money for a system that is supposedly "Good" would mean a justification that they had a problem in the first place. It's the first angle on a slippery slope of degrading trust in the product. You admit there is a problem, at all, and you are done with. However, if you can somehow manage to just make those people shut up and walk away, then no one is really the wiser.

[buttface]

The system is still usable of coarse but should only be limited to foamies that you don't care about.Even then then it not the best for them either.I don't understand why lots of people are still using it in there glow planes and giant planes after knowing about all of the bad stuff with XPS. They continue to fly ticking time bombs and stand up for the product.But then people do dumb things every day and I for the life of me cant figure that out either.
I read the local paper today .A man parked his car in the middle of rout 7 bridge and jumped plummeting to his death.I wonder If he was trying to prove every one wrong that told him he couldn't fly.The XPS users just keep using it hoping to prove it works for them.Why do something that obviously puts you at RISK ???

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by buttface
	The system is still usable of coarse but should only be limited to foamies that you don't care about.Even then then it not the best for them either.I don't understand why lots of people are still using it in there glow planes and giant planes after knowing about all of the bad stuff with XPS. They continue to fly ticking time bombs and stand up for the product.But then people do dumb things every day and I for the life of me cant figure that out either. I read the local paper today .A man parked his car in the middle of rout 7 bridge and jumped plummeting to his death.I wonder If he was trying to prove every one wrong that told him he couldn't fly.The XPS users just keep using it hoping to prove it works for them.Why do something that obviously puts you at RISK ???

Buttface. . until it happens to THEM. . .it's a "Fish in a big school" ideology. . . one fish in a school of 10,000, and there is a hungry barracuda swimming around. . it will eat all the OTHER fish before it gets to you, which gives you plenty of time. . .

Until it happens to THEM. . WE are the silly people crying Wolf!!!!

Until it happens to THEM. . it's merely a rumor, spread by the competition to ruin JD's reputation. . .

Until it happens to THEM. . it does not happen!!!! And it's CHEAP compared to the competitions equipment. . so they buy it.

It's easy to believe it will not happen to you, that your setup is bullet proof, and it works as advertised. Right up until it happens to YOU. . then you will be a believer. . .

[wrightme]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BaldEagel
	Wrightme Please explain what any of your comments contribute to the "Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping" thread? you have given us no test data or information that would change the opinion of anyone who has had a problem, all you have done as far as I can see is contradicted. Please explain your purpose on this thread? and please do not say its giving a ballanced view. Mike

Can't comply. It IS to give a balanced view.

Why do you care if I am in the thread or not? Just because I fly XPS without troubles? Go ahead and look through the whole thread. What does any of it really have to do with the subject? At the time of the OP, there was no such data forthcoming, and from the OP, there is still no data. Kiwi has provide a test since then. Why am I here? Why don't you ask Kiwi where he got the XPS TX module for his testing.

Why should I not be here? Are you the gatekeeper? I have as much right to be here as you do. Why are YOU here?

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	Can't comply. It IS to give a balanced view.

There's a problem with that though.

The evidence is in and it looks pretty much as though the weight of that evidence falls on the side of XPS not having the claimed levels of frequency agility.

We now run the risk of each side of the debate re-stating their case again and again -- so as to provide "balance" because neither wants the other to have the final word.

That's one of the reasons I wrote the article on RCModelReviews.com -- to kind of draw a line in the sand and present all the known facts in one place without an endless "I say/you say" dialog persisting.

I think each side has had plenty of opportunity to air their views and present their evidence.

Based on the evidence that has or hasn't been presented, most intelligent folks can draw their own conclusions as to the veracity of XPS's claims in respect to frequency hopping.

Until more actual evidence comes to had (as opposed to hearsay or anecdotal reports) then I really don't think there's much more to say -- which is why I've not made many postings here of late.

I'm not suggesting that this thread be closed -- because if/when new evidence comes to light, it would be useful to post it here so as to retain context. I'm just hoping we can avoid a vicious spiral of recycled opinion and fact.