Independent tests prove lack of frequency hopping with XPS

[socalsal]

You ask why do something that obviously puts you at RISK??? We all do it every single day we are alive. If you drive a car you are at risk etc. This I think you can understand right?? I hope so.
72mgz systems are still getting "blamed" for all sorts of crashes. 2.4 will be the same till something else comes along. Then it is that system. I'm no radio guru by any means but just because on person did his very best to get XPS to hop and could not does not mean the system is worthless....not yet. We need to have more tests in different ways to prove that this XPS thing is a bad piece of hardware.
I find it very hard to believe that the AMA is not aware of this problem and has not done anything to stop its use at ANY AMA field. Think about it?? if this XPS or any other system is that bad it should be banned just for the liabilty factor alone. Tell me is the AMA aware of this??? I sure has heck don't know if they are.
I fly both XPS and Futaba systems on 2.4 have not had problems with either as of now. After reading this forum about XPS I may be thinking of it more when I fly it. But so far so good. Yes I do do things that put me at risk...like going to war and KNOWING it could get me killed or driving on the roads or climbing aboard a full scale plane etc.
O.K. I'm done.I'm not a JD fanboy as some have put it.don't even know JD or any of you folks here for that matter. But it sure seems that if someone gets on this forum and does not agree with the folks that dislike this JD fella then they are all idiots as well. Just goes to show you how funny people are.

	Quote: Originally Posted by buttface
	The system is still usable of coarse but should only be limited to foamies that you don't care about.Even then then it not the best for them either.I don't understand why lots of people are still using it in there glow planes and giant planes after knowing about all of the bad stuff with XPS. They continue to fly ticking time bombs and stand up for the product.But then people do dumb things every day and I for the life of me cant figure that out either. I read the local paper today .A man parked his car in the middle of rout 7 bridge and jumped plummeting to his death.I wonder If he was trying to prove every one wrong that told him he couldn't fly.The XPS users just keep using it hoping to prove it works for them.Why do something that obviously puts you at RISK ???

[adjonym]

The one thing i have problems understanding is; How can someone that bought a XPS system defend it?
Let me explain what I mean.
If I bought a car, a nice shiny car that's advertised to have a nice powerful V8 engine, a 5.1 stereo system, nice leather seats and beautiful alloy wheels. Then on delivery you get a car with a 4 cylinder engine, a mono AM radio, and cloth seating. Following the logic of the ones defending XPS, I still should be satisfied.
Why?
Well, a cars purpouse is to take me from point A to point B. A four cylinder engine will do that just as good as a V8.
A stereo systems purpouse is to deliver sound. An AM mono radio will do that.
Leather seats are just there for you to sit on, any old cloth will do just fine.

My point is; You aren't getting what you payed for, as advertised.
It's impossible for me(not owning an XPS system) to understand that ANY customer is satisfied when they havent' got what they payed for. I'm still amazed that the company haven't been sued.

Again, any results that cant be reproduced DOESN'T EXIST!!!
I said in an earlier post that i was close(well, i had decided to) buy an XPS system, based on performance(advertised) vs price. Everytime I read a post there I feel lucky to have read all the CONFIRMED tests, that changed my mind. Still makes me angry that I got so close to being ripped off.

[ss40]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	All the XPS stuff aside, we should welcome the new posters to the FG site. I hope they spend some time, and join in some other discussions. We have a great community developing here, and everyone is welcome. Thanks for stopping by guys!

A little late but I need to say this. Re: your comments:
Certainly better than the other posters "attitude". I fly models in the hundreds range not thousands, but my knees shake more during a maiden than some of the guys who fly the larger. As a result of being here I am sorely tempted to get one of the Lanier 94", so your attitude about new guys is the right one.

[ss40]

	Quote: Originally Posted by adjonym
	The one thing i have problems understanding is; How can someone that bought a XPS system defend it? Let me explain what I mean. If I bought a car, a nice shiny car that's advertised to have a nice powerful V8 engine, a 5.1 stereo system, nice leather seats and beautiful alloy wheels. Then on delivery you get a car with a 4 cylinder engine, a mono AM radio, and cloth seating. Following the logic of the ones defending XPS, I still should be satisfied. Why? Well, a cars purpouse is to take me from point A to point B. A four cylinder engine will do that just as good as a V8. A stereo systems purpouse is to deliver sound. An AM mono radio will do that. Leather seats are just there for you to sit on, any old cloth will do just fine. My point is; You aren't getting what you payed for, as advertised. It's impossible for me(not owning an XPS system) to understand that ANY customer is satisfied when they havent' got what they payed for. I'm still amazed that the company haven't been sued. Again, any results that cant be reproduced DOESN'T EXIST!!! I said in an earlier post that i was close(well, i had decided to) buy an XPS system, based on performance(advertised) vs price. Everytime I read a post there I feel lucky to have read all the CONFIRMED tests, that changed my mind. Still makes me angry that I got so close to being ripped off.

Sorry but no autos achieve the EPA mileage rating, but we continue to buy them. My 2005 Taurus doesn't and I am an "easy" driver and normally go 80,000 between brakes and 70,000 on tires, but the mileage just isn't there. If you took the SUV's on the terrain they show in commercials, they would refuse the repairs under warranty. It may be bulls**t marketing and is disappointing but when it works in function as advertised, of course a lot of people will support it. Whether it hops or not doesn't matter to a person that is flying glitch-free in their situation.

All manufacturers have hyped their product. The new switch that shorts out and needs a wire clipped is an example. Are they replacing the models that "smoke" into the ground on that one?
Photoshopped photos were another example. Cables weren't shown in the original marketing. They even included an Eclipse 7 in an initial photo on announcement of the new 2.4 and this particualr one can't work with it.

Ethics are a thing of the past and it is even more buyer beware. Get used to it and get on with your life!

[Costas]

I would not say that the XPS system is deficient enough to warrant a ban on its use by the AMA etc.

The system does work (as many will attest to) but as highlighted, it does not fully work as stated in their literature. An existing user or persons considering a purchase will need to weigh up the pros & cons of all the 2.4 systems and select one that is suitable for use in their craft - whether the XPS solution will be good enough for their intended use should be a question that they should ask themselves.

The biggest concern (myself coming from an RF background) is that XPS chose not to implement any receive diversity in their receivers and the fact that (as we now know) it does not seem to have the ability to change frequencies if it suffers interference on its chosen channel.

Now this does not mean that the system will not work, yet it does mean that it cannot work as well as some of the other systems in certain scenarios. It also shows that some of the other manfacturers have done some extra homework when designing their 2.4 systems and have embedded some extra safety measures to ensure a more robust RF link to your craft. Whether these extra measures are important to you is up to you to decide.

I do know for certain that If I am flying a relatively expensive model, I would want to minimise any risks so I would need to seriously consider the RF performance features/benefits of some of the other 2.4 offerings over the XPS system.

[zoomer260]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	You know, that "eclipse of the moon..." statement just makes no sense at all....... It is also a decent example of the posts that would get threads deleted in the XPS Vendor forum on RCG.

Made a whole lot of sense to me because we are left guessing what can cause XPS to hop. Is it a full eclipse of the moon ? Sun ? We should not have to come up with these (silly guesses) when it would be so easy for the moderator of the thread in question to answer this question.

You should kill a thread if it get's out of hand leaving the posts intact for all to make their own judgements. Posts that are completely "off topic" I can understand.

One sided threads serves no purpose.

[BaldEagel]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wrightme
	"Late in the day" is only relative to the time zone of the poster.

Late in the day was alluding too the fact that you joined FG in Jan 2008, late in the day for this disscusion.

No one seems to have picked up on the fact that my interfearance issues are in exactly the same areas that others get interfearance with PPM, this does not happen with PCM or other 2.4Ghz radios, it would, therefore, seem to me that the XPS/Graupner system is only as good as PPM, that is why others are having success and others are going in. Lots of people fly PPM on lots of flights and then sudenly loss of control happens for no apparant reason, most know that PPM is not the most robust of connections and will from time to time have problems, but the controlling authority (AMA in US and BMFA in UK) have not banned it, just as they will not ban XPS/Graupner.

So what we have here is a system that is only as good as PPM, with in flight lock out instead of a glitch that we can fly through, if you are prepared to fly XPS/Graupner with this in mind, then fine, but please don't fly near me or any of my relatives, or friends, or any humans, and I also like cats and all other mamals. LOL

Mike

[Daemon]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BaldEagel
	So what we have here is a system that is only as good as PPM, with in flight lock out instead of a glitch that we can fly through, if you are prepared to fly XPS/Graupner with this in mind, then fine, but please don't fly near me or any of my relatives, or friends, or any humans, and I also like cats and all other mamals. LOL

I take it then, that you refuse to be anyone who uses PPM as well? That must
really limit your time at the field.

ian

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Daemon
	I take it then, that you refuse to be anyone who uses PPM as well? That must really limit your time at the field. ian

Actually, I too refuse to be near people flying on PPM, since their planes tend to do STRANGE things in the air, but I am powerless to make them fix the problems and they keep flying them. I've seen too many people who complain a many times about glitches on their PPM systems, but NEVER take the time to ascertain the problem and fix it. Usually they just say "well, it only happens once in a while. . it'll be fine" and just continue to fly. . or the plane finally gets so unflyable that they knuckle down and finally fix the problem.

And, no it does not limit my flying at all. . I just make sure I am under the shelter when these silly people are flying their potential unguided missiles, and keep a close eye on them. Thankfully, only a handful of people at my field (s) are on PPM. I'd guestimate that 90% are on PCM or 2.4. And, again thankfully, usually these glitches are short lived, and they regain control.

Too bad, when XPS glitches, you can't regain control. . . . .

But, the glaring part of BaldEagel's post is. . why is XPS having problems when 72mhz PCM is not?? I thought 2.4 was supposed to be better, have a stronger link, use GUID and all sorts of neat things to lock onto signals, and be our Saviour. . . Now. . THAT is scary. . . . .

[buttface]

Yes brains are dangerouse.

[XJet]

I'm not sure how much veracity there is to this posting over at RCG but it could be an indication that Graupner are re-thinking the XPS (IFS) system for aircraft use in Europe.

[KrisW]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	I'm not sure how much veracity there is to this posting over at RCG but it could be an indication that Graupner are re-thinking the XPS (IFS) system for aircraft use in Europe.

Graupner woke up, it seems. . now we can help put XPs to sleep..

[zoomer260]

	Quote: Originally Posted by KrisW
	Actually, I too refuse to be near people flying on PPM, since their planes tend to do STRANGE things in the air, but I am powerless to make them fix the problems and they keep flying them. I've seen too many people who complain a many times about glitches on their PPM systems, but NEVER take the time to ascertain the problem and fix it. Usually they just say "well, it only happens once in a while. . it'll be fine" and just continue to fly. . or the plane finally gets so unflyable that they knuckle down and finally fix the problem. And, no it does not limit my flying at all. . I just make sure I am under the shelter when these silly people are flying their potential unguided missiles, and keep a close eye on them. Thankfully, only a handful of people at my field (s) are on PPM. I'd guestimate that 90% are on PCM or 2.4. And, again thankfully, usually these glitches are short lived, and they regain control. Too bad, when XPS glitches, you can't regain control. . . . . But, the glaring part of BaldEagel's post is. . why is XPS having problems when 72mhz PCM is not?? I thought 2.4 was supposed to be better, have a stronger link, use GUID and all sorts of neat things to lock onto signals, and be our Saviour. . . Now. . THAT is scary. . . . .

Guess you poor souls would have to have missed all the rc fun when it was AM huh ? And When PPM was the next thing you would have all jumped up and down about how great IT was !

Untill the next greatest thing comes along. I personally would order a 9303 2.4 system yesterday if I could afford it, I'm looking at the Spektrum 7 because I can't right now.

The only plane I ever lost due to radio link problems was with PCM lockout. Discounting the idiot that told me his PPM radio was off and I could have the pin when it wasn't.

But I wouldn't "hide under a shelter" because some "old school" equiptment was being used.

All our planes are "potentially" unguided missiles regardless the radio system used.

[Kiwi]

Zoomer,

Very well stated and very very true.

2.4Ghz in any way shape or form is not the panacea for RC. And nothing ever can be while we have human beans involved in controlling, building and installing the electronics.

I have seen some installations that scare the living bejezzuz out of me and some of those guys are fast to criticize the radio systems when things go belly up. I dont care if you have a fixed wire to those setups, they scare me more than XPS does.

Sure XPS does not meet the expectations the marketing hype played it out to be. I for one will never ever use it in its current form on anything I am not prepared to loose. I would certainly use it on trainers and the likes at our local field because I know the noise floor is zero. XPS will work for that place in a simple balsa model with minimal shielding potential for that single antenna.

But I would not ever place it in my scale models or my competition models. Not because its bad but because there are better systems that I KNOW are far more resilient to noise and shielding and all the other gremlins that plague the 2.4Ghz systems.

Its not all bad, its horses for courses and to my mind the real error from XPS was to over hype its capabilities.

It works, it has limitations, if you understand what they are then its as good as a PPM system or all the other single channel wi-fi systems.

Do I understand the frustration of those who have lost a model to it. You better believe it mate. Would I be quiet if it had affected me? No way, I would want blood because the things do not do what they are purported to do. Thats the thing that would bug me badly.

[jonkoppisch]

EXACTLY!!!