PAU 36% Edge 540 Build

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Cobra_03
	Wow! Marjor Smack Talker, A little disgruntled are we? Geeze man.... I though this was a build thread for a PAU 36% Edge and not a bashing thread! I think your point has been made guy! I have wanted this plane since it came out and have been following this thread since page one. Not once have I decided to shy away from the edge from what I have seen on this thread. We had 5 PAU edge 540's at our field this weekend and after seeing them fly I'm sold. Despite all the PAU haters out there. I'm waiting for my new DA100L then I'll be clicking the buy button on this airframe! Yeah Son!! Major, this ones for you..... YouTube - HANGER 9 35% EXTRA 260 AIRFRAME FAILURE

This has nothing to do with haters, this has to do with recognizing what appears to be an unsresolved issue. Try reading ALL the words.

Ya, I came across that video too - that was one I'd seen. I couldn't find anyone talking about the new ones or the "glue updated" wings failing. This discussion wasn't really about whether or not H9 extra wings would or could or have failed in droves - but the fact that PAU wings are failing left and right (haha) by their sponsored pilot(s) and they didn't have a clue why. Nor did they care to see the wreckage to try to determine why... and it happened again to the same guy after the wing tube length was to blame.

This has nothing to do with disgruntled - it has to do with my amazement that some people are so stubborn to hear about a problem with a brand they are a fan of. So be it. You can do what you want of course, but you shouldn't shoot the messenger when you don't like the news.

As far as the H9 goes - it flies awesome, it kicks butt on all types of 40% planes in competition, in all sorts of weather - it won the freestyle at Tucson, and there are about 6 of them flying in IMAC NW without any losses to wing failure - unlike the PAU which has had 2 flying in IMAC NW with 3 failures. Just math SON. You can do it too.... Sorry for the robbery, you can have your thread back now. I honestly do wish you luck with yours after you push the buy button.

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpea
	No I won't. I've watched the fuse of the H9 twist and fail on numerous planes in the SW. Also purple isn't my color. If I wanted another 260 I'd get the AW version. I've owned 2 and they were both rock solid. I am looking for something other than another 260 also H9 is overpriced IMHO....

I was just kidding... but seriously. ha !

Try not to get me wrong - I was a big fan of this edge and would have been flying one now if there was a red version rather than the pale yellow. I'm just saying that with the evidence before me and the not so clear answers as to why they were busting up - I'll pass.

At 950 it's priced pretty fair now, at 1200 it was a little rough. Free shipping is easy to get at a retailer as well. Not much I can do about the purple though. Get your edge together and bring it to a contest and we can test out it's precision at least... (or bring whatever else you got if you think that'll help).

Anyhow you did say H9's were failing with far more instances - that's something I was waiting to see if you would backup rather than making generalizations of brand you're not a fan of.... and in being fair - in those instances what did horizon do for the customer ? Anyhow, good luck with it all. Really.

[tkapfer]

Meanwhile back at the ranch.....Since I am building this kit and am looking forward to flying it....

What is the wing tube length supposed to be?
Should I just dribble thin CA down around all those ribs I can get at to make sure it doesn't happen to me?
Has any of the wing problems happened with the current generations of this plane or has the problem been resolved?

Thanks

[Islandflyer]

PAU will not get dragged into some shooting match with self proclaimed design review experts, but we do have to reply to incorrect or incomplete statements.

As posted earlier, I saw three of the production 36% Edges doing some pretty good hucking all week-end long at the Bell Air field. One of these is from the second production batch.

The 36% had a production (not design) issue in the second batch, which was promptly dealt with as soon as discovered: the short tubes were replaced for everyone who responded to our emails and phone calls, confirming that they had the shorter wing tube. This short wing tube has caused two failures:
-Scott E who has received a full refund for his plane; he is now talking about fixing the plane because so enjoyed the way it flew.
-Harv who received a new plane.

Wylie, by his own admission had a “Pilot error, bad judgement.../... ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I DID IT!” Wylie, we appreciate your owning up to your error.

Harv recently destroyed the second plane he was given, not from design flaws, but likely from the same type of over-aggressive flying Wylie was honest enough to admit: high speed parachutes which Harv was observed doing on the 36% Edge, are a quite common cause of death amongst 100cc and 150cc planes, regardless of who the manufacturer is. Even if the abuse does not immediately cause a crash, it is likely to cause damage that will show later, even while under only moderate stress.
As a result of this and the ultimatum he gave PAU, Harv’s sponsorship was terminated, leading to his disgruntled state of mind already showing more clearly in another forum. None of this was meant to be public, but we cannot stand in silence in the face of slanderous statements. Unexplained failures are not happening “right and left”: the short wing tube issue and acknowledged pilot errors account for all but Harv’s second crash. While we are not happy with it, this would be quite a good record for most manufacturers and we should be flattered that we are held up to a higher standard. We are realistic, and we do not claim a perfect quality control: Boeing, NASA and Airbus have failures of their own in spite of their tremendous budgets; our record in the hobby business is pretty good considering the budgets and factory workers’ competency levels we have to deal with.

Let us be clear: If you intend to do high speed violent walls and high speed powered down parachutes with a 35% plane or above, please purchase someone else’s plane. We design planes to fly light, and therefore we do not make heavy duty re-enforced machines. This is a trade off that most can understand.

As an indication, a violent wall or parachute can put as high as 5 to 10 G’s of force on the structure: this means that if you set up this plane light, at about 24 to 25 lbs, just 5 G’s now makes the plane weighs over 120lbs, and at 10 G’s, it will be 240lbs!
So I will repeat: if this is the type of abuse you plan to subject your planes to, please, by all means, purchase and abuse planes form companies other that PAU.

In the mean while, we are always working to improve our designs, and each production run includes improvements, including improvements in structural design, such as stronger wing tube attachment methods. However, this can stretch the envelope, but it will never make planes be abuse-proof.

We, at PAU, pride ourselves designing, providing and supporting great flying machines; we hope these planes find some good homes, with people who enjoy flying them with as much enthusiasm as all the guys I was privileged to see this the past week in the North West.

There are dozens of happy customers flying our 36% Edges, and the third production batch is currently on the Ocean. Two people and their supporters should not be allowed to ruin the pleasure for every one else.

[CSpaced]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tkapfer
	Meanwhile back at the ranch.....Since I am building this kit and am looking forward to flying it.... What is the wing tube length supposed to be? Should I just dribble thin CA down around all those ribs I can get at to make sure it doesn't happen to me? Has any of the wing problems happened with the current generations of this plane or has the problem been resolved? Thanks

I just measured mine and its just shy of 43.5".

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by islandflyer2
	There are dozens of happy customers flying our 36% Edges, and the third production batch is currently on the Ocean. Two people and their supporters should not be allowed to ruin the pleasure for every one else.

It's not by any surprise... but you have taken this all wrong. Two people whom have had failures are the only ones (so to speak - because it's more than 2) that have had their pleasure ruined - not everyone else.

I'm glad you came on and gave an explanation though. That should be helpful for anyone who had any doubts.

[JohnVH]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Major_Smackdown
	It's not by any surprise... but you have taken this all wrong. Two people whom have had failures are the only ones (so to speak - because it's more than 2) that have had their pleasure ruined - not everyone else. I'm glad you came on and gave an explanation though. That should be helpful for anyone who had any doubts.

Just wanted to say, that one person your defending, that went through two, has admitted to me about overstressing the wings on one of the planes at least (huge parachute).

Lets leave the drama to Jerry Springer and try to be mature productive people... If there is constructive critisism (even from the secret 'expert') call PAU up. Amazing how many people hide behind the computer being a internet warrior.

Rock on

[wylieruneyjr]

Its like a pile of crap, the more you stir it the more it stinks. Problem here is the shizt stirrers. Man -up, You abused the airframes until they failed , and got free planes, or money back. You will not amitted the truth, and continue to stir-up shizt. And the supporters I,m sure are great guys that speak on first knowledge of what they have seen, However they didn,t see all the bad landings and violent stunts pulled prior to failure. I don,t care how good a pilot is there will be times when the landings aren,t perfect, and the manuvers are harsh. It all adds up to, you flew the shizt out of your plane until at some point it failed. Now you try and justify your guilty concense with some bull story that its a defect. Not gonna fly with me. I believe that this post will piss all yall off. That was not my intent. I JUST CALL EM LIKE I SEE EM> I suggest that if you are moved to respond to my post that you PM me and not continue to stir crap on this form, as it helps no one, and hurts everyone. My displeasure is pointing out the sad truth here.

[Oilsands]

	Quote: Originally Posted by CSpaced
	I just measured mine and its just shy of 43.5".

To properly measure the tube length, you insert it all the way into one wing and mark the tube. Then insert the tube into the fuse and line up the first mark to the side, mark the other side. Then take the tube and insert the other end into the other wing, if the mark on the tube lines up with the wing then it is the right length. If it goes into the wing then mark the tube when the tube is fully inserted. Remove the tube and measure the distance of those two lines, it should be less than 2 mm (I think was the spec given).

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JohnVH
	Just wanted to say, that one person your defending, that went through two, has admitted to me about overstressing the wings on one of the planes at least (huge parachute). Lets leave the drama to Jerry Springer and try to be mature productive people... If there is constructive critisism (even from the secret 'expert') call PAU up. Amazing how many people hide behind the computer being a internet warrior. Rock on

The 'expert' wouldn't be a secret if you came out to an IMAC contest once in a while. He doesn't participate on FG or he might chime in. I don't want to assume he wants his hands dirty with all this grouchyness - nobody is gonna listen anyways - that much is clear.

I'm not defending anyone except Scott - knowing full well his flying shouldn't have broken a proper wing like it did - I'm just saying that with what I've seen and what I know I'd be concerned that the wings might be iffy. I don't know enough to say why or why not... This is just from what I've seen and from talking to people I actually know and the track record around here. This is what we call discussion - it's not really drama.

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wylieruneyjr
	Its like a pile of crap, the more you stir it the more it stinks. Problem here is the shizt stirrers. Man -up, You abused the airframes until they failed , and got free planes, or money back. You will not amitted the truth, and continue to stir-up shizt. And the supporters I,m sure are great guys that speak on first knowledge of what they have seen, However they didn,t see all the bad landings and violent stunts pulled prior to failure. I don,t care how good a pilot is there will be times when the landings aren,t perfect, and the manuvers are harsh. It all adds up to, you flew the shizt out of your plane until at some point it failed. Now you try and justify your guilty concense with some bull story that its a defect. Not gonna fly with me. I believe that this post will piss all yall off. That was not my intent. I JUST CALL EM LIKE I SEE EM> I suggest that if you are moved to respond to my post that you PM me and not continue to stir crap on this form, as it helps no one, and hurts everyone. My displeasure is pointing out the sad truth here.

I think you have the right to assume all you want about the abuse that went on behind the scenes.. Calling people liars and less than MAN if they didn't "man - up" - this is what adds to the pointless drama when other people are trying to discuss their findings and concerns.

And someone called me smacktalker. And your avatar is still creepy.

LOL. (you win - I'm not going to reply here again - it's just stupid)

[Scotte 540]

I was going to let this die and you can call me or anyone you choose names, I could careless....I CALL IT LIKE I SEE IT and that's my right.........Fact is that I never abused this plane, the hardest maneuver that it was ever given, was a by the books snap roll,,,,,,Second fact is my wing tube was the correct length and fit tight to both ends of the wing sheath........There were many people that saw the wing blow off and my landing and the pictures below are the inside of my good wing, that I decided to expose this morning,,,,,,you can argue all you want that this happened on landing, but the people that witnessed this landing know that the good wing never touched the ground and on the outside was not even scratched, the landing gear not bent at all..........pic #1 is the 2 piece spar brace that has no glue and nothing to make it strong, it is two useless pieces,,,#2- every rib from where I couldn't reach to add the glue I did, is broken, cracked, missing pieces====these pieces were not in the wing,,,,#3 is a factory glue joint, were as the rib was glued crooked and was missing a piece,,,,,,,the sheeting was separated along most of the spar and there are many things, cracks, splits that my camera could not pick up,,,,,,,,,,,some of this must of happened on my landing, but there is enough things that I see that would effect the performance/life of this wing,,,,,,,,,most all of this would not be visible from looking thru the root,,,,,,,,,,,,I will redo both wings and fly this airframe again, because I like the way it flys and if you think this is ruining things for other people or is slanderous, so be it, you can have your opinion too...............

[CSpaced]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Oilsands
	To properly measure the tube length, you insert it all the way into one wing and mark the tube. Then insert the tube into the fuse and line up the first mark to the side, mark the other side. Then take the tube and insert the other end into the other wing, if the mark on the tube lines up with the wing then it is the right length. If it goes into the wing then mark the tube when the tube is fully inserted. Remove the tube and measure the distance of those two lines, it should be less than 2 mm (I think was the spec given).

Cool, did that - it looked good.

[harv]

im soo mad over the fact everyone keeps sayin i did high speedf parachute. Herve, you need to find better sources. The parachute i did was something that plane should handle. And it did at the time. Im just soo sick of being blamed for everything that goes wrong with that plane. Ive never had good luck with pau/bme and i never will.

[harv]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JohnVH
	Just wanted to say, that one person your defending, that went through two, has admitted to me about overstressing the wings on one of the planes at least (huge parachute). Lets leave the drama to Jerry Springer and try to be mature productive people... If there is constructive critisism (even from the secret 'expert') call PAU up. Amazing how many people hide behind the computer being a internet warrior. Rock on

i never said i was over stressing the plane. and if i did over stress i had no idea. I did what the plane was supposed to do. And i never really got a chance to tell herve this because of the some of things he was sayin to me. Im not mad because i lost a sponsorship(thats what most of you think), honestly, i really dont care. I just did my duty and won freestyles with it thru out the northwest. but it didnt look like he really cared and dont deny it. Im not gonna go around slandering you guys. But dont expect me to change my signiture picture. Your lucky enough that i changed the line that was written there. I really doubt anyone else from the NW imac region would buy a PAU plane after what happened to mnie and my after experience. Whats done is done and everyone should just let it go. Who cares, its PAU's problem, it always has been. You guys can say all you want about my flying i dont give a crap. id rather you say it to my face then behind my back. oh, and i'll understand if im black balled whenever i come to bell-air by allt he other PAU guys. I felt i already was when i got there thursday.

I should mention that that one parachute that flexed the wings, REALY REALLY changed how people saw the plane in a good way. Herve, im pretty sure you think this post is "immature" and that my big "ego", is getting to my head because im "just a kid" and that my "dad should teach me some humility."

alright im done. good bye

harv---former PAU pilot.