Holy Cow !

[paulvohland]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	So you screwed up. Man up and admit it, don't put your mistakes on ATC. Your fuel gauges worked didn't they? Less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine, that's emergency time. Yes I've paid my dues in aviation just like you are now.

Luckily i only paid my aviation dues for 2 months..... got tired of seeing INOP Placards all over the panel... LOL

Paul

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	So you screwed up. Man up and admit it, don't put your mistakes on ATC. Your fuel gauges worked didn't they? Less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine, that's emergency time. Yes I've paid my dues in aviation just like you are now.

Uhm.. according to the regs, the fuel gauges are only required to be accurate at tanks empty (if my memory serves me right). And our owner accepts it to leave it that way, so 90% of the time, our gauges are over 1/2 a tank off. And seeing how this is the first time either me or the other crew member had flown this particular plane, we weren't aware. But yes, "we" screwed up, but the ATC delays were a contributing factor in the screw up. Who said we had less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining on either engine? We still had 60 gallons of fuel in the right nacalle tank, granted we didn't know that at the time of the incident.

[Flyfalcons]

Well you ended up having zero minutes of fuel on the left engine, correct?

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	Well you ended up having zero minutes of fuel on the left engine, correct?

yes true... sorry i miss read your other post.. forgot the "either" haha.. i do enjoy my job. its not everyday you get to fly a king-air 90 at 200agl following the earth at 160kt groundspeed and required to do 45-60* bank turns w/ 180* of heading change

[Flyfalcons]

You said you're in Virginia? I can't find your certificate info on landings.com

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	You said you're in Virginia? I can't find your certificate info on landings.com

were not 135. were 91

[Flyfalcons]

No I meant your pilot certificate.

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	No I meant your pilot certificate.

......

[pjfaller]

WOW!!!!
Part 91 or part 135 running out of fuel???????
just a little qualifier for my comment not patting my back....15K hours multiple heavy jet type ratings.

I dont care how screwed up the fuel transfer system is on a King Air 90, 200, or 300 for that matter. As an SIC or a PIC its is your responsibilty at ALL times to know the usable amount of fuel on that airplane at ALL times. Running out of gas in an airplane is pure STUPDITY....Even more stupidity is the fact that you are online #1 telling about it and #2 trying to justify complete and total incompetence. Have I ever screwed around in an airplane. YES!!! two mistakes high and within the FAR's.
Try sitting across the table in a pilot job interview and explain it the way you are doing it on here. Gee...would you get the job? My thoughts would be NO!

I have a HUGE problem with this post! I wonder why on a daily basis my career and profressionalism as an airline pilot is being questioned by the flying public. Its comments and stupidity like yours that make ME defend my professionalism. You should be 609'ed and your license taken away. WHY not because you screwed up, although I cant justify a fuel starvation problem, but you should be 609'ed because you cant get it through your thick headed skull that what you did not only jeopordized your own life, but your passengers and those on the ground as well.

PURE STUPIDITY PAL!!!!! you can say what you want in return, but wake up and realize what you did is completely and totally your fault as well as the PIC's and there is nothing you can do or say to justify it!

[pjfaller]

Oh and by the way....You say it started over Jacksonville.
what are these?
Jacksonville
St. Augustine
Ormond Beach
Daytona Beach
New Smyrna Beach
Titusville
Merrit Island
Orlando
Sanford
Partick AFB
Vero Beach
Stewart.......

Answer......Suitable airports to land at!!!!!!!!

Gee when you got in the airplane and had three hours of gas onboard, NOT gallons, I dont give a rap what the gauges say. Ive got 3 hours and accroding to the FAA VFR at 2:30 minutes HMMMMMM I need to land. I dont wait unitl 3 hours and then say its a transfer pump problem to blame my stupidity on running an engine dry!!!!!

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pjfaller
	WOW!!!! Part 91 or part 135 running out of fuel??????? just a little qualifier for my comment not patting my back....15K hours multiple heavy jet type ratings. I dont care how screwed up the fuel transfer system is on a King Air 90, 200, or 300 for that matter. As an SIC or a PIC its is your responsibilty at ALL times to know the usable amount of fuel on that airplane at ALL times. Running out of gas in an airplane is pure STUPDITY....Even more stupidity is the fact that you are online #1 telling about it and #2 trying to justify complete and total incompetence. Have I ever screwed around in an airplane. YES!!! two mistakes high and within the FAR's. Try sitting across the table in a pilot job interview and explain it the way you are doing it on here. Gee...would you get the job? My thoughts would be NO! I have a HUGE problem with this post! I wonder why on a daily basis my career and profressionalism as an airline pilot is being questioned by the flying public. Its comments and stupidity like yours that make ME defend my professionalism. You should be 609'ed and your license taken away. WHY not because you screwed up, although I cant justify a fuel starvation problem, but you should be 609'ed because you cant get it through your thick headed skull that what you did not only jeopordized your own life, but your passengers and those on the ground as well. PURE STUPIDITY PAL!!!!! you can say what you want in return, but wake up and realize what you did is completely and totally your fault as well as the PIC's and there is nothing you can do or say to justify it!

Dude.. i take my job very seriously. Yes what happened should not have happened, but it did, **** happens, you learn from it and carry on (if all comes out well at the end).. At the time neither of us had any indication that we were going to have a flame-out, both fuel nacalle fuel gauges were reading well above empty, and our times indicated to us we had plenty of fuel on board (which we did, 60 gallons roughly, just unfortunately it was all on one side). We "could" of done a cross-feed and had no other problems but we decided it was best to continue on one engine.. And Again, i wasn't PIC, yes i was acting as FO, but FAR's still say its PIC decision. We operate under restricted category, so we dont carry passengers. I'm not trying to justify it was a stupid decision, just that it was a learning experience from a LACK of training. I hadn't even attended a ground school for the king-air 90 and only had a rudementary knowledge of the fuel system, so i was going by mostly what my times were telling me and from the experience for the PIC.. you think I dont realize what could of happened had the situation turned worse. I've lost 3 friends in aviation b/c of stupid decisions, I realize what "could" of happened. Luckily i had someone looking out for myself as well as others and it did not happen. It was a good learning experience (although it should of been in the sim instead of in the plane) and i learned from it.

[Thomas_W]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pjfaller
	Oh and by the way....You say it started over Jacksonville. what are these? Jacksonville St. Augustine Ormond Beach Daytona Beach New Smyrna Beach Titusville Merrit Island Orlando Sanford Partick AFB Vero Beach Stewart....... Answer......Suitable airports to land at!!!!!!!! Gee when you got in the airplane and had three hours of gas onboard, NOT gallons, I dont give a rap what the gauges say. Ive got 3 hours and accroding to the FAA VFR at 2:30 minutes HMMMMMM I need to land. I dont wait unitl 3 hours and then say its a transfer pump problem to blame my stupidity on running an engine dry!!!!!

Ok.. once again... yea it was stupid. We didn't "blame" it on the fuel transfer pump, I said the fuel transfer pump issue contributed/caused the issue. Me having an entire 100 hours of time in the same type at the time w/ 1 hour of training and no ground school training played a large part of it as well. Little experience in my part as an FO, *** was i supposed to do. rudementary knowledge on the fuel system at the time so i went with what the captain said would be best, until the light never came on.. then i spoke up. I just now finished a ground school course, which was pretty basic and pointless IMO, it was more on company policy than procedures and aircraft systems. Dont judge me from one incident i happened to be involved in. Had i been the PIC i would of diverted to an airport long before the flame-out as i knew something was up when the PIC decided to cross-feed (which at the time i vaguely remembered someone saying to never use x-feed in our planes) but I said nothing (which is the biggest problem) b/c he had greater experience in type than myself. Now i know if anything feels out of place to speak up. If people get mad tough ****, they'll get over it

Our endurance in our planes is 6 hours 25 minutes. That leaves you 5 hours and 55 minutes. We had PLENTY of fuel to get to FXE w/o issues even w/ the transfer system fubar'd, had it not been for the atc delay's. We never expected to have over an hour of atc delay's. but thats still no excuse.

[3DFreak576]

	Quote: Originally Posted by N726AC
	Got my pop-corn.

	Quote: Originally Posted by JohnVH
	subscribing for the show...

Hey pj, where in port orange are you?

[crazyextra]

And I thought Modelers were a fiesty bunch, Sheesh

[KIM]

thank god everyone came out ok never went past a 150 33hrs