Futaba notice

[1bwana1]

here is the latest from Futaba on the matching GUID problem.

Futaba 6EX, 7C and TM-7 Service Advisory-

This service advisory affects only owners of the Futaba TM-7 module and 6EX and 7C FASST systems. Each FASST transmitter contains a unique eight digit identification code, programmed at the factory to identify the respective transmitter and to allow a receiver to be paired only to that radio’s signal. Recently we have learned that a very small number of the TM-7 modules, and 6EX and 7C FASST systems were incorrectly coded with a common code number during the manufacturing process. These units were subsequently sold prior to our awareness of the situation.

If two or more units, utilizing this common identification code, were to be in use simultaneously, they may cause interference with one another. Please note: Units which utilize the correct identification code will not be affected by these units.

We’re extremely confident that this is not a widespread problem. We know of only one instance in the United States. However, to give you peace of mind that your system is not affected, we will soon be setting up test stations at participating hobby shops throughout the country where you will be able to go to determine -- within a matter of minutes -- whether or not your transmitter is affected, at no charge to you. Or, if you prefer, you may send it in to our service center we will analyze it for you at no charge. If any problem is found, it will be replaced. We will gladly pay the postage for returning the unit and sending it back to you.

If you have questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact our Futaba Service Center at: 217-398-0007 or via email at: service@futaba-rc.com. Our staff is available to you Monday-Friday, 8am-5pm U.S. Central Standard Time.

Precautionary Measures and Information-

1) As with all radio control equipment, we strongly suggest that you pre-flight your aircraft thoroughly prior to flying. When flying at a location with other FASST owners, prior to flying we suggest that all pilots briefly activate their systems simultaneously to check for any interaction between units. If any interactions should occur, do NOT fly. Return the unit to the Futaba Service Center for immediate replacement.

2) Each time that your transmitter is turned on, it is imperative that you allow the FASST system an adequate amount of time to thoroughly boot-up completely before shutting down the transmitter. We recommend allowing the system at least five (5) seconds prior to turning off the power to the transmitter.

3) If the transmitter and receiver have lost their binding which required them to be re-linked, we recommend returning them to the Futaba Service Center for analysis. This is not expected behavior and should be investigated accordingly.

[ConRadical]

Very interesting, I remember back in the day when a company that makes Network cards somehow ran a VERY LARGE number of NICs with the same MAC address.
At least it's an easy problem to fix and the make it right.

[madmax]

This is the official service advisory direct from Great Planes Folks, I was just about to post it from the other thread. Thanks to GP for their proactive announcement on this matter. It's cool to see manufacturers taking ownership of these types of problems. Thanks guys.

MD

[gareth.ky]

Note on GUID's: A GUID has a very specific meaning in Computer Science. Its is a 128 bit (16 byte or 16 character) number. There is a very specific algorithm for deriving them that ensures that is all the computers in the world generated GUIDs as fast as they could from now until close to the heat death of the universe that none of them would ever generate the same number twice, ever. It involves using the MAC address of the machine generating them + the time, down to the clock tick on the CPU, that the number is generated. So they are spatially and temporally unique.

Anything else is just an identifier. In these systems that means you have to keep track of the identifiers you have used thus far. If you are using GUID's you don't keep track, you just generate a new one.

Not bashing Futaba or anything, just trying to educate. Futaba is likely using smaller numbers as a performance trade off (perfectly acceptable engineering).

[1bwana1]

Well, it looks like Futaba has officially acknowledged the existence of the non unique GUID problem. I think it is great that Futaba has done this so quickly. However, at the risk of being label a Futaba basher (I am not, I just want the fields I fly at to be as safe as possible, and I am interested in 2.4 in general), I feel that Futaba has failed to recognize the full extent of their problems at this point. This is evidenced by asking people to go to a store to have their units tested, and precautions 1 through 3 in the advisory.

First, if you have one of these radios, how comfortable are you trusting that all others with one have gone to have the test done? What do you do, walk the flight line and ask all other users if they have had their TX checked when they show up at the field? The whole premise of of this is just half baked and wrong.

Precaution 1.) All owners of these radios must check against each other before flying. That means if three of you are at the field when you start flying, and a new guy shows up, you all need to stop flying and check against his radio. That is silly, and certainly not safer than a 72MHz frequency board.

Precaution 2.) It has been reported (and looks like verified by Futaba) that there are modes of operation that can cause the GUID in your radio to be re-set to all zeros. If this is true, then you will never know for sure if yours, or someone else you have previously cleared of conflict, has changed, and now you do have a problem. This means you must forever do the checks in precaution 1 every time you fly. To have a system where the GUID can change is a bad design flaw, depending on user behaviour is not an acceptable solution to the problem.

Precaution 3.) Seems to confirm that even if you go to a store and have your radio checked, it is possible to change later. The indications of a change are loss of bind. What is the user supposed to do? Check his planes against his radio at home before he goes to the field? If he goes to the field and discovers that problem there, it may be too late, he may have shot you down. Again, depending on user behaviour is a ridiculous solution to such a fundamental issue.

So, at this point, we know that some radios were shipped with the problem OK it happens. The bigger issue is that it seems that the problem can manifest itself after being checked. It seems Futaba is trying to limit the impact this problem has on them. Personally, I think the world would be better served by a grounding, and recall of all the affected models. I would not have a radio with these kinds of known issues hanging over it's head.

That's my opinion, whats yours?

[dick hanson]

QUOTE:
2) Each time that your transmitter is turned on, it is imperative that you allow the FASST system an adequate amount of time to thoroughly boot-up completely before shutting down the transmitter. We recommend allowing the system at least five (5) seconds prior to turning off the power to the transmitter.
END QUOTE
This is apparantly the the achillies heel in the system.
having worked professionally as a defense expert in liability cases- I really don't expect that simply instructing the operator to use care in turning a switch on/off will do much in resolving the issue.
My opinion only, based on designing and patenting ,doing defense work involving industrial control systems - -
One simply can't leave these decisions/choices up to a non trained operator
I really hope Futaba has a better fix than this .

Their first step of addressing the issue was of course , necessary

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	First, if you have one of these radios, how comfortable are you trusting that all others with one have gone to have the test done? What do you do, walk the flight line and ask all other users if they have had their TX checked when they show up at the field? The whole premise of of this is just half baked and wrong.

OK, you know you have a system with an issue. Why not send it in and get it replaced FOR FREE? That way you remove the worry.

If your system is not one with the problem, then you have no worries about the ones that are.

As far as checking in the field, how arduous a task is this?? How many 6EX/7C-FASST/TM-7 radios are at any one given field at a time?? Seems like an easy thing to do pending sending in your affected system.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by dick hanson
	This is apparantly the the achillies heel in the system. having worked professionally as a defense expert in liability cases- I really don't expect that simply instructing the operator to use care in turning a switch on/off will do much in resolving the issue.

Oddly, I too have extensive experience along these lines. It is called an "administrative control". It is widely recognized as a perfectly adequate type of control.

As I noted on another site where you made the same point, the 14MZ has a similar procedure since shutting it down prior to completing the boot up can cause it to lock up. It is not that big of a deal to work with.

[gareth.ky]

Obviously this is an official press release but it sounds WAY overkill. They had 1 incident, the sky is not falling. I have a few friends flying and driving with FASST and they have not had any issues.

I am surprised however that they have not posted a list of the serial numbers of affected radios. That would have been a much more reasonable response.

[dick hanson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Oddly, I too have extensive experience along these lines. It is called an "administrative control". It is widely recognized as a perfectly adequate type of control. As I noted on another site where you made the same point, the 14MZ has a similar procedure since shutting it down prior to completing the boot up can cause it to lock up. It is not that big of a deal to work with.

OK that's your opinion -
I don't feel that is a good path to take

[Shakes]

	Quote: Originally Posted by dick hanson
	OK that's your opinion - I don't feel that is a good path to take

And some other's disagree with you. I work with computers and switching a system off directly after turning it on can lead to data corruption. I'd never think of immediately switching off a piece of electronic equipment like this.

Sure, your preference may be a system where this is not an issue but I see it as a reasonable request with anything that works with solid state memory or a hard drive system.

[1bwana1]

Judge,
I would agree with you if the problem was just that some units were shipped with improper GUIDs. However, the larger issue is that it appears the GUID can be changed by inadvertent user actions. A stable reliable GUID is fundamental to the 2.4 MHz protocol. If the Futaba design allows the GUID to change, it is badly flawed. Even if you ask for a replacement now, you will still get a radio with this problem in the design. I think what Futaba is doing is the proper interim response to the issue, and I commend them for it. Hopefully, after further research, and time to develop a permanent fix, they will do more.

The fact that the 14mHz has a boot problem is really not the same thing. Your radio locks, and you are are inconvenienced. The FAAST GUID problem may cause you to shoot down another fliers plane. Big difference!

[Radioactive]

Guys,please let the futaba users, and actually folks using this equipement worry, thks for all of your concerns..But if you don't have the system, thus you are safe...Correct?? Then why chime in and give your 2 cents.. have you the full information, do you know everything???????????
Man, give it a rest, and let the professionals handle it. Folks can send it their system at no cost if they chose.. or do their own tests!
Have a good Day!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dubd]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Radioactive
	Guys,please let the futaba users, and actually folks using this equipement worry, thks for all of your concerns..But if you don't have the system, thus you are safe...Correct?? Then why chime in and give your 2 cents.. have you the full information, do you know everything??????????? Man, give it a rest, and let the professionals handle it. Folks can send it their system at no cost if they chose.. or do their own tests! Have a good Day!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that is unrealistic. Some people who are seeing this issue in the forums are potential owners of FASST, either because they have a Futaba radio and are considering the module or because they are considering a dedicated 2.4Ghz system from Futaba. Asking the community to stop talking about this simply because they do not own the system yet shows that you have a bias. Bottom line is if a company does not want to have a bulls eye on their back then they need to stop releasing products with bugs. That goes for Spektrum, Futaba, Hangar-9, etc. These forum discussions are forcing the manufacturers to come out and address the issue. Some companies are faster than others in doing that. *cough* Spektrum *cough*. These issues have cost modelers their money and time. If you have a problem with it because you are affiliated with Futaba in some manner, then I suggest you step out of this discussion.

[ConRadical]

Unless i am misunderstanding the only way you'll be shot down with this problem is if both of you happen to have two units that got the same GUID, it's not the other way around where the bad GUID is going to shoot down every other FASST unit.

If you have your radio tested and it doesn't have a bad GUID... don't worry, FLY.

Right?