NW IMAC Competition Thread

[bgold]

Smackey, I've used the EQ-10 on all of my gs planes with out a hint of a problem. Oh they are hard to adjust when you glue the adjustment buttons shut. The last two came with an extra page warning not to plug a power lead into a slot on the receiver marked battery so I'm guessing that probably caused trouble somewhere but I have complete confidence in setup and the EQ-10.
Are you working on the EF.
Bill

[Major_Smackdown]

Jeff, I might have your shirt and a couple others here - I'll get them to one of the guys you hook up with regularly - if you put the request in then you'll get it.

Bill, I'm getting ready to get Aron's airplane together, I haven't started yet - he's gathering some gear, when it's gathered, I gotta go up to tacoma and get his engine and pipes.

Aron bought his servos from Don's hobby shop and when he was making the order Don gave him a good earful about how nobody knows how to properly setup an airplane, and that (just like in his ad in the latest ama magazine) people are crashing 10 planes lately with power dist. system failures or whatever. He talked Aron into a few changes in the setup, but I don't want to change the way I've planned to my build my own airplane unless I'm convinced I should. We both planned to use EQ10's and A123 batts and servos that operate on 5cells nimh - which is equivalent to A123. He got Aron turned away from that setup and headed toward LiIon batts and regs, 2 receivers and matchboxes. The only problem I have is that I didn't want to bottleneck power delivery to the wing servos, and I don't believe in LiIon batteries and regs. In my current 35% plane I didn't mess around and I delivered power through my own wiring harness directly to my wing servos and a pair of leads to my receiver - with a redundant power source. Don doesn't like the A123 batteries because you can't tell when they're depleting by looking at the voltage - I've got 3+ years of flying airplanes and helis with an unknown number of total flights and I never crashed one because I couldn't read the voltage depletion. I did lose one because I didn't cycle a battery that was in extended cold storage, and then didn't check the voltage on the first or second flight. If I had done either of those things differently I'd have a perfect track record. It wasn't the fault of the A123 battery type that I lost my plane, but that I failed to do two things I know I should have done. In fact those same battery packs went on to fly my h9 35% extra for the next two seasons and are still perfectly fine. Checking the voltage of A123's is really not magic at all, you just have to consider tenths and hundredths of volts instead of volts and half volts. I really like the other numerous advantages of A123s which are - self regulating power (effectively) - since the voltage drop curve is super flat (and this scares some people but it shouldn't - you shouldn't be running any batteries near depletion anyhow - so who cares it drops off suddenly - just don't get that far - and check your voltages before each flight - you'll never have a problem) - very high charge and discharge current, the way I understand it they really just DON'T catch fire when charged abusively (or under the wrong settings).. and they're the right voltage for a DA ignition, so I've cut out 3 regulators. I also had a few problems with LiIon battery packs just being nearly dead on arrival but seeming to be ok... and not figuring it out until a few days of what the heck - why is my battery dead already nonsense.., as well as their charge/discharge current limits alone are less robust and convenient and they're expensive. I know the arguments that are FOR LiIon - but I just don't care for any of it. I do like the freedom of never really worrying - did I charge my batteries or not ? Since I can charge my plane up in 15 to 25 mintues at the field which is about as long as it takes me to get it assembled and gassed up. The only thing that is a little hassle about A123's is how I get them. I like the A123 brand of cells and those are in Dewalt 36volt battery packs - and they take a few minutes to get them out and solder them up and put a balance lead on them. In that way you can get 5 battery packs for about 110 bucks plus the cost of some wire and plugs. You have to have some technique, and a hot soldering iron to solder directly to the cells - you need to get the soldering done quickly - usually less then 1 or 2 seconds to not damage the cells. I know there are some die hard LiIon folks out there so I guess I'm just as set in my ways for using A123. Anyhow, Arons plane will be done by flying weather for sure, the Daltons, I'm really now sure when they'll get done. My builder man says April 1st, but there's a lot that could happen between now and then. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[Major_Smackdown]

I finally got my inverted hover wiggled below knee height - Aron's been doing that comfortably for a long long time. A couple weeks ago Aron and his Synergy N9.

YouTube - VID 20101017 150955

[danielph]

Nice job Smacky! Now start 3Ding your plane!

[rcgood]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sscamaro69
	I believe the best way to set up a 2 rx system is to have opposite sides of the planes on each instead of the entire side of the plane on each rx... meaning, set up right aileron and left elevator and vise versa... then if 1 rx does go out, then you still have 1 control surface on each side of the plane to help land safely. Same with engine controls... 1 rx has a kill switch and the other has the throttle, so you can shut off the engine with either rx working. ...and Yes, this is part of Don's set up tips for GS planes too.

I actually thought of doing this myself. My only worry is that I might not realize it if one receiver did go bad since all surfaces will still work when doing the preflight checks but will only get power from half the servos (when you have 2 servos per surface). You could always turn on each rx at a time and test them out but from experience I noticed it's pretty hard on servos when one has power one doesn't and you move surfaces back and forth. Which is what you would be doing every time if you make this part of your preflight checks. I was thinking maybe it would be easier to just land with half a plane???

[rcgood]

Smacky, I'm not much of a believer in Li-ions myself. I personally don't think they put out the current needed for my 35% plane especially with these newer more powerful servos. On top of that they are very expensive. I still have two sets that I plan on using untill they go dead just so I won't throw them away.

[plowboy]

I am using just one Smartfly Failsafe Switch to the EQ10 and two A123 batteries and one receiver. I don't know how another switch would help me, if the switch I have fails, it fails in the on position. Where am I going wrong?

[borealnw]

I have the unique oppertunity to visit Kurt at Fromeco and have seen the tests and the inner workings of batts. I've seen batts in real world action run to their potential and the winner is clear in every case. LI ion is the only batt that can produce the power needed to not only run but sustain a 10 amp draw. In fact is the only batt that will rise in performance as it heats up. All other batts drop well below thier "spec" When put in a 10 amp draw for any amount of time let alone an extended time. That said I have never seen a plane fail on ions but I have in this last season seen 2 very expensinve planes meet their "end date" and the result was failed A123s.

[LawnJockey]

Hey Smackey,
Does Aron still have that 40% he got from my buddy Tom?

LJ

[djmille]

	Quote: Originally Posted by plowboy
	I am using just one Smartfly Failsafe Switch to the EQ10 and two A123 batteries and one receiver. I don't know how another switch would help me, if the switch I have fails, it fails in the on position. Where am I going wrong?

This is a hard discussion to stay out of ! The best test of redundancy is look into you plane with a pair of wire cutters in your hand and say "if I cut any single wire, will this plane still fly?"
1. If you are using a smart fly fail safe, then cut the switch wire, it means you can't turn your plane off; no issues there.
2. If you cut a battery lead, there should be no issues because you are running two, correct?
3. If you cut your throttle servo wire, you will still have "some" engine and a kill switch when you're on final.
4. If you cut any aileron servo wire, the plane will fly funny, but you can bring it back (been there)
5. If you cut an elevator wire, will you make it back? Are you running both elevator halfs off a single channel, or are you splitting it betwen two channels, or possibly two receivers?
6. If you cut a rudder servo wire, you may have an interesting flight, but changes are, 1 or 2 servors pushing one ore more dead ones will make the plane mushy in the yaw, snaps will suck, but you will more than likely be able to bring it back.
7, If you cut the ignition cut wire, you probably wouldn't even know it until after landing; (this is why we don't aim the plane toward the pits)
8. Hmmmm; What if you cut a receiver antenna ? (this is the most interesting discussion point for redundancy)

On the power side of things, most Smart-Fly products have built in redundancy; you can go inside and cut the copper traces and to see how they would fail. The Eq6-10, all have dual power inputs and two filtered/regulated power connectors going into your single receiver. Yes you can cut one of the receiver inputs and still fly with no problem.

Most high performance RC equipment is designed to handle single point failures. Once you get into multi-point failures, then all bets are off. I wonder how many multi-point failures could be alleviated with good maintenance and pre-flights?

good stuff guys

-Darin 2.0

[Flyfalcons]

My big Edge and Extra run on Li-Ions, moving 13 servos with no issues.

[borealnw]

You make a good point Darin. Something I need to look into on the carden build. That is, use two channels for redundancy on one controle surface with two or more servo's. This year I lost a rudder servo burned a hole in the bottom of the case. I was lucky I had the SWB servo tray as it did lock on a not nuteral position. Both were plugged into EQ-10 on one channel. yikes what if it burned out my EQ-10 channel. Yes I could have brought it home with no rudder but what if they both were locked in a left or right position. Hmmm. Thanks Darin off the the hanger to move some wires around in my Yak.

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by danielph
	Nice job Smacky! Now start 3Ding your plane!

haha, not me buddy - not yet anyhow. at least the helis are a relatively cheap fix and can be fixed well. I'm just breaking into "sport" flying the helis - I'd love to just be able to fly inverted with confidence.

[Major_Smackdown]

	Quote: Originally Posted by borealnw
	I have the unique oppertunity to visit Kurt at Fromeco and have seen the tests and the inner workings of batts. I've seen batts in real world action run to their potential and the winner is clear in every case. LI ion is the only batt that can produce the power needed to not only run but sustain a 10 amp draw. In fact is the only batt that will rise in performance as it heats up. All other batts drop well below thier "spec" When put in a 10 amp draw for any amount of time let alone an extended time. That said I have never seen a plane fail on ions but I have in this last season seen 2 very expensinve planes meet their "end date" and the result was failed A123s.

how did the a123's fail ?

[Major_Smackdown]

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