Is a trainer really needed ??

[Dave M]

I'm looking for opinions here....


If one was a good r/c heli pilot...and wanted to get into planes also.... has phoenix simulator... is a "trainer" plane really necessary ??

I'm finding that fixed wing on the sim is fairly easy....even the landings. I do have some time in a full scale plane. ( not taking lessons..family members are pilots ) So the understanding of flight is there.

I just cant see spending money on a trainer plane that just lumbers along. Is a second type plane really that much harder to take off and land ??

Signed..Tightwad.

[XJet]

What do you mean by "second type plane"?

Many of today's "trainer" type planes are a far cry from those of years gone by.

Used to be that a trainer was a lightly-loaded, relatively underpowered inherently stable airframe that was designed to right itself when the controls were released to neutral. This no longer seems to be the case in many instances and today's trainers have far less stability and much more power than they used to.

Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about:

AT40 trainer

World Models SkyRaider Mach 1

I don't think you'd be too disappointed with either of these as your first fixed-wing if hucking-hard is your goal ;-)

Otherwise (if you're looking for something a little more 3Dish) then a good profile would not be too hard to fly.

[Tired Old Man]

No, trainers aren't necessary at all. There's not a hobby shop or retailer out there that will mind a new flyer going out and repeatedly crashing a bunch of high performance planes. It's great for business and their bank accounts. Makes for wonderful entertainment for everyone else at the field too.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Pat Roy
	No, trainers aren't necessary at all. There's not a hobby shop or retailer out there that will mind a new flyer going out and repeatedly crashing a bunch of high performance planes. It's great for business and their bank accounts. Makes for wonderful entertainment for everyone else at the field too.

To be fair, it's been my experience that proficient heli-fliers don't take very long at all to become proficient fixed-wing fliers and if they've spent enough time on a simulator they can probably get by with a "sport" model rather than a pure trainer.

To be honest, something like a Katana 46 or Mojo 40 is sometimes a better option since they are so lightly loaded that they can be flown nice and slow and on low-rates they handle better than some trainers.

However, you are correct when it comes to those who like to try and "jump" the learning curve. We've had guys come out and break plane after plane after plane -- simply because they can't be bothered practicing circuits and landings with their trainer to the point where they can put it down exactly where they want it every time and recover from "oopsies" without breaking a sweat.

[ShortBus]

necessary? no?

will it be easier? yes.

[Dave M]

I have a 4 star 40 here ready to go......

What is going to make a trainer better for me......

I am a self taught (never buddy box) Heli pilot....circuits..FFF...loops, rolls... have not put it in yet..Knock on wood.

Pat Roy...I really hope your comment was more of a joke..

If it was not... then i hope you don't infect your club like a bad virus. There is no way I would be part of a group of pompus a$$es like you. You leave a very bad taste in my mouth. Maybe I'll stay with helicoptors.

[XJet]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Dave M
	I have a 4 star 40 here ready to go...... What is going to make a trainer better for me......

It will be a little more forgiving of your inevitable mistakes -- although I thought the 4*40 was a low-wing sport ship, hardly a pure "trainer". I think a Katana 46 would be easier to fly than a 4*40.

	Quote:
	I am a self taught (never buddy box) Heli pilot....circuits..FFF...loops, rolls... have not put it in yet..Knock on wood.

Not trying hard enough then ;-)

	Quote:
	Pat Roy...I really hope your comment was more of a joke..

I took it as a joke, I'm sure it was. Nobody really enjoys watching other folks trash their models, do they?

Hover combat

Hmmm... maybe they do ;-)

[micp]

Personally I think if you are good on a simulator you can go with a well setup Extra and be just fine. The issue will be landing of course but with a little help the average person will be fine without a trainer. I find most folks use a trainer for a few weeks and then move on. Some guys like trainers and fly them for years so I guess it depends. I flew RC for several years as a kid and had a 15 year break. I build a Kadet and brought it out to the field and flew it a few times, yanked my radio and engine out of it and gave it to a kid and started flying low wing sport planes.

[Dave M]

Thanks so far....

Yes the 4* is considered a low wing sport plane.... easy...hard...I dunno.

I hope Pat was joking.... for the hobby's sake.

Last year My wife and I went to the local plane club....For the first 2 minutes all was well.... then the ball dropped...my wife told them I fly Helis....Thats when the attitudes changed.... apparently helis are not very welcome there. I fet very obligated WHY they would not be receiving my $100 club dues. Considering I get my money the old fashion way.....They need to earn my dues. We then went to a different club the next weekend.... and spent 5 hours there, and did not burn a drop of fuel.

[XJet]

I think some fixed-wing fliers (and clubs) are heli-averse simply because they feel uncomfortable flying alongside something that can just sit in the air without moving. Some 3D profile fliers get the same objections.

I'm amazed at how selfish some clubs are these days, making no allowance for the fact that some people have different interests but should be equally entitled to air-time as the majority.

Our own club has grown from two memebers to 30+ in just a few short years because we accept everyone and consider that all have a right to fly whatever they want. Commonsense and courtesy are the rules and everyone gets on really well. You'll see helis, 3D profiles, trainers, giant scale and turbines all getting on together without bitching or moaning.

Perhaps this is a little unusual these days because many of our members are defectors from other clubs and some travel over two hours to get to our field even though there are clubs much closer to them.

[Greyhoundman]

Given you already have RC experience and you have a sim I think you will be fine going to a profile or a u cant do or something along those lines. Basically a trainer is mostly for learning orientation more than anything else.

[rede2fly]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Dave M
	I'm looking for opinions here.... If one was a good r/c heli pilot...and wanted to get into planes also.... has phoenix simulator... is a "trainer" plane really necessary ?? I'm finding that fixed wing on the sim is fairly easy....even the landings. I do have some time in a full scale plane. ( not taking lessons..family members are pilots ) So the understanding of flight is there. I just cant see spending money on a trainer plane that just lumbers along. Is a second type plane really that much harder to take off and land ?? Signed..Tightwad.

hey tight wad i too was like you and went from helis to planes . and the answere to your question is NO, YOU UNLIKE OTHER PILOTS, YOU ARE WAY AHEAD OF OTHERS.you know what a rudder is for, and you my friend will have no problems at all. i flew helis for 11 or so years and bought a plane. my first plane was a magic, and i flung that plane all over the place 1st try. dude planes are soooooo much easier than helis you wont beleive it. but dont expect to hover the first time. and for the clubs they have allways been that way. airplane guys dont like helis around because they cant fly them. also welcome to the giants, and as with all places this place has its share of well, you allready know what i mean. yep their everywhere

[zoomer260]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rede2fly
	hey tight wad i too was like you and went from helis to planes . and the answere to your question is NO, YOU UNLIKE OTHER PILOTS, YOU ARE WAY AHEAD OF OTHERS.you know what a rudder is for, and you my friend will have no problems at all. i flew helis for 11 or so years and bought a plane. my first plane was a magic, and i flung that plane all over the place 1st try. dude planes are soooooo much easier than helis you wont beleive it. but dont expect to hover the first time. and for the clubs they have allways been that way. airplane guys dont like helis around because they cant fly them. also welcome to the giants, and as with all places this place has its share of well, you allready know what i mean. yep their everywhere

And I thought it was because there is a heli sitting still in the middle of the runway and they would like to make a low pass or maybe touch and go or even land! One of the clubs here in Louisville has a another runway 90 degress off one end of the landing strip for heli pilots. Very good idea I thought as I wouldn't want to lose my heli from a from a moving object when all I was doing was sitting still !

[eblenkle]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Dave M
	I'm looking for opinions here.... If one was a good r/c heli pilot...and wanted to get into planes also.... has phoenix simulator... is a "trainer" plane really necessary ?? I'm finding that fixed wing on the sim is fairly easy....even the landings. I do have some time in a full scale plane. ( not taking lessons..family members are pilots ) So the understanding of flight is there. I just cant see spending money on a trainer plane that just lumbers along. Is a second type plane really that much harder to take off and land ?? Signed..Tightwad.

Hey Tightwad, Welcome aboard. Don't let other people get to ya man... Let it slide.

Where I fly people that come out and show interest can setup a trainer session with the instructors using a club owned high wing trainer and buddy box (if Needed).

I realize you won't need any help at all, but I would like to see you succeed and come away from the first flight feeling good and wanting to get your plane up as soon as possible.

Check with the locals and see if one of the instructors will assist, If they are any good at all then they will help make your first flight a total success.

A checkout flight on a trainer is a piece of cake.

My experience tells me a low wing is possibly the hardest plane to fly they have weird tendancies when they get near stall speed (IE. Landing)

Good Luck Man

PS. I'm sure Patroy was just trying to be funny

Ernie

[rede2fly]

	Quote: Originally Posted by zoomer260
	And I thought it was because there is a heli sitting still in the middle of the runway and they would like to make a low pass or maybe touch and go or even land! One of the clubs here in Louisville has a another runway 90 degress off one end of the landing strip for heli pilots. Very good idea I thought as I wouldn't want to lose my heli from a from a moving object when all I was doing was sitting still !

nobody should be on the runway. if they are, then they are in the wrong but, just to shun them is wrong. dont you think so? hey i have seen a lot of fun flyers doing there little loops and stuff righ in the middle of the runway... whats the diff?? a couple of years back i even hit one landing my PLANE due to the fact he wouldnt leave the runway so i could deadstick in, but still its dosent make it right. he planly said he was a good heli pilot so why would he be there??? when i fly iam no different than a plane. i start in a hover and leave the runway to fly. then when iam ready to land i come back to the runway hover and land much like a real airport works. planes have to taxi and use the runway both tacking off and landing and so does a helicopter. but RC airplane pilots are unforgiving to helicopters. much like your statement. but hey its a small airport and should be used as such. if it goes in the air it should be allowed and not frowned on. dont you agree?? if a heli pilot is just learning he has no business on the runway. he should be off to one end or the other. now days there are way to many airplanes hovering on the runway