Carden/Dalton Electric Kits?

[ben_beyer]

So I've had this idea of sorts for some time now, but I don't know if there is interest and I may be the only one.

The price of electrics is coming down and there are some really good airframes out there. However, they're dominated by ARF's and everyone is stuck to the same scheme. I'm not trying to bash that and I think the EF 58" Extra 300 is an awesome airplane and I wouldn't be opposed to getting one if I didn't have other projects going right now.

Now, what if a company like Carden or Dalton offered smaller versions of their airplanes designed around electric power?

I think it would be awesome if someone could have both a giant scale kit and a smaller electric that looked just like it for throwing around in a parking lot. Plus, not everyone's plane would look the same. Both companies know what they're doing when it comes to designing so I'm sure if they looked at some of the other popular designs they could go from there. Plus, the planes could incorporate conventional building techniques so big tables for sheeting wings wouldn't be required. An airplane with a wingspan of let's say 50-75" might be very attractive for modelers.

Now, I'm not doing this to try to get either company to start designing and selling small electric airplane kits so I could build a small Carden or Dalton. They may not have an interest and want to focus on improving giant scale kits. I'm just curious if anyone else would be interested in them.

Please vote and share your opinion. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, just curious what other people think.

[Simpleton]

Seeing as how Carden is dipping their toes into the ARF market, the trend may be going the other direction.

I love to build. If good quality cowls, canopies, and wheel pants were readily available, that would be great. The cost of those items might drive the cost right back into the ARF range, where you get them already painted. Of all the electric ARFs out right now, not very many sport foam core wings/stabs, and building built-up surfaces increases the construction complexity (and probably cost) to the point that many might just opt out of a kit build.

Tough call, I'd almost be inclined to strip the covering off an ARF and recover if scheme individuality meant so much.

[ben_beyer]

The cost issue is more or less the case of any ARF these days.

However, these kits I would imagine that they wouldn't be too complex. You could engineer it to have interlocking tabbed construction so all you would need is a flat surface to build on. Foam is a nice tecnique, but not suited to smaller models. A way to reduce weight and go back to traditional building would be wood ribs and basswood spars. You could even put holes in the ribs for CF rods and then the wing would more or less be jib built and strong. This would mean anyone with a flat table could build a Dalton or Carden kit. In stead of having some manufactured design, you would have something that looks like a Carden or Dalton except smaller for example.

But this is why I brought this up. The design could be very simple and construction may only take a few nights. Then you'd have a smaller plane with outstanding flight characteristics that you built yourself.

It would be nice, but if they're going to develop an airframe, it would also be good for them if they could sell it. But there's all kinds of questions that would have to be answered before any manufacturer would do this. I'm just curious to see what other people think.

[Simpleton]

Don't get me wrong, if somebody came out with a kit built similar to an EF or 3DHS plane, I'd have to have one.

[ben_beyer]

Me to! But I remember when I built my Sig Somethin' Extra kit. By the time I got done, it would've been cheaper to go with the ARF version. There's pros and cons to both in my opinion.

[dpoles]

If 3DH sold Kits, I would buy more than 1...but building kits ends up being more than Arfs! and I Can't cover as well as those Chinese ladies!

[Neil4]

I would for sure want one. I am actually finishing up my first ever kit which was a 35% Dalton 260. Pretty straight forward build and looks great. I had the most fun building it so have a smaller Dalton which involoved a little less money but I still got to do the whole build and covering all over again would be sweet. Maybe the easier way of doing this is to not ask the companies( Carden or dalton) to start producing the smaller kits but to buy a set of plans, have them down scaled to the size you want, then send it off to a kit cutter.

Let me know what you guys think because my friend can down scale plans on autocad so I could maybe work out some deal.

Neil

[ben_beyer]

That's a good idea. There's places that do laser cutting for cheap to.

[Matchless]

	Quote:
	Maybe the easier way of doing this is to not ask the companies( Carden or dalton) to start producing the smaller kits but to buy a set of plans, have them down scaled to the size you want, then send it off to a kit cutter.

I hate to say it, but I honestly don't see either of these companies providing their 'intellectual property' for a project like this.

Additionally, you would basically have to completely re-engineer the structure to make it work- IE, start over.

Beyond that, laser cutting is MUCH more expensive than most people think it is. My personal experience with this is that the majority of vendors I worked with for my lasercutting essentially priced me out of the market by raising their prices (and they raised them for all). They did so to the point that it is literally cheaper to have arf's produced in the far east than to have a kit done here.

Personally, I love the idea of such a project. I designed my own Extra 260 kit, but mothballed the project when I saw Jesky's Extra and some other vendor's 260's came out- I did not figure a kit would ever sell if there was an ARF out. Frankly, I never even finished the airframe!

All that aside, I think a quality Electric Kit with Dalton or Carden on the label would outsell any other comparable kit.

[Matchless]

Ok.... this thread made me dig this out of the attic......

You really don't want to know what this lasercutting cost.

Unfortunately, I think I lost all the files for this airplane when my hard drive crashed a month ago....

[ben_beyer]

I'm thinking of more the shapes and general design. Both Dalton and Carden have unique shapes. I guess I'm thinking of a reversed engineered kit.

What if they sent the plans overseas to have the parts cut? Seems like they could get it done cheaper maybe.

Anyways, as I stated before this is just an idea. There are no wrong opinions more or less.

[TazmanianDevil]

NOOO....

Don't do it... please...

It will be like a Ford truck with an hybrid engine or even worse with an electric one.
Dalton and Carden are like Big muscular cars, i do not see the logic in even putting them in this line of "It is so innovating let do everything electric" era, well these planes need to stay in the old fusion muscular gas engine planes (and the bigger is the better).

That is my thought.

TAZ

[ben_beyer]

I'm sure gas engines are going to remain either way, but we're just saying it would be cool if they scaled them down for a small electric for messing around with. 3D Hobby Shop has some great designs but what if you could have a smaller version of your big gasser?

And electric will beat gas for performance any day. If you want something with even more muscle, pull that old technology out of there and put an electric motor in it.

And I'm not trying to call you out or anything. If you want to keep putting gas engines in your planes, do so by all means. I'm still going to continue to do all my planes 50cc and above in gas for the next few years at least. I may try to do one as electric, but we'll see. The electric motors they have out now though have some great performance.

[why_fly_high]

http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/home.php?cat=15

Have you seen these. I have never tried them but have heard good things. If there was money to be made in this size, more would be doing it.

Dan

[tommy321]

It's about time Stevens Aero got mentioned.

I have his Edge 540:
http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/prod...&cat=32&page=1

and I'm on my second Groove 480:
http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/prod...&cat=32&page=1

They're two of the best flying aircraft I've owned... electric, glow, or gas... period.

Plus... you've never had so much fun building an airplane before, the way they all interlock and jig together. You can build the wing on your lap while drinking beer and still end up with a nice straight wing if you follow the instructions.

Unfortunately, Bill Stevens seems to be focusing on the smaller sized aircraft right now. Oh well... I'm still waiting patiently for his Ultimate Bipe!

Tom