Kiwi's XPS test results are up.

[Tin man]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tadawson
	Not to forget: Everyone else got one, so why not? (Lemming theory . . . follow the herd, at times without any thought involved . . . ).

Yea, I mean 2.4 GHz is so ubiquitous that it's all you see at every flying field.

Or not.




--
Mike

[capgains]

	Quote: Originally Posted by alfred
	True And also lots of us are techno buffs. Doesn't mean we just follow the herd.

I'm loving the ease of using 72mhz anymore. Went to a big meet in the end of May, where in past years had to wait sometimes hours to get my channel. This year I was only one on that channel, and there were several channels that had only one regestered pilot per channel.... some were empty.

2.4 has been good for everyone... even those that didn't buy it.

[seattle_helo]

	Quote: Originally Posted by capgains
	The real truth is nobody is buying 2.4ghz systems because they think they are safer, and you will never see that in an advertiser's claim.

The primary reason I went SS, and Spektrum in particular, was for safety. Many of the guys I fly with have also moved on to 2.4Ghz specifically to avoid the risks (and safety liability) of potential shoot downs.

nick

[tadawson]

	Quote: Originally Posted by alfred
	True And also lots of us are techno buffs. Doesn't mean we just follow the herd.

Just keep in mind that in a lot of cases, newer is not necessarily better, just more profitable . . . .

- Tim

[XJet]

I suspect that the 2.4GHz craze came as a big relief to the big RC makers.

Let's face it, China was making huge inroads into the lucrative market for 72MHz FM receivers and pushing prices way-down.

Without a shift to 2.4GHz, radio sales would likely have continued to stagnate -- after all, just making a new "facelift" radio each year with a couple of extra channels isn't going to convince existing customers to trade up.

When 2.4GHz came along Futaba and JR saw the chance to sell new radios to people who previously would have been happy to keep using their old 72MHz gear for may more years.

And, even better (from an RC manufacturer's point of view) it was the ultimate opportunity to lock customers into a brand-specific receiver.

No more buying a cheap Chinese FM receiver to use with your expensive JR/Futaba radio. No. Now, if you've got a JR 2.4GHz radio, you have to buy a JR-brand receiver and if you've got a Futaba 2.4GHz radio, you have to buy a Futaba-brand receiver.

I really think that RC makers are laughing all the way to the bank and breathing a sigh of relief that (for the time being) they've dodged the bullet that cheap "made in China" compatible products represented.

[easytiger]

" Gordon has made it very clear that all of the products they review are purchased by the magazine without the manufacturer's notice. "

That's a bald-faced lie.

[easytiger]

"(Once again I wince at the magazine that is owned by a MAJOR mail order company that said the Kyosho Gee Bee Z was a great ARF)"

WHICH MAGAZINE IS OWNED BY A MAJOR MAIL ORDER COMPANY?

And...the Kyosho Gee Bee was a great plane. Deserved the positive review.

[Kiwi]

	Quote: Originally Posted by XJet
	I suspect that the 2.4GHz craze came as a big relief to the big RC makers. Let's face it, China was making huge inroads into the lucrative market for 72MHz FM receivers and pushing prices way-down. Without a shift to 2.4GHz, radio sales would likely have continued to stagnate -- after all, just making a new "facelift" radio each year with a couple of extra channels isn't going to convince existing customers to trade up. When 2.4GHz came along Futaba and JR saw the chance to sell new radios to people who previously would have been happy to keep using their old 72MHz gear for may more years. And, even better (from an RC manufacturer's point of view) it was the ultimate opportunity to lock customers into a brand-specific receiver. No more buying a cheap Chinese FM receiver to use with your expensive JR/Futaba radio. No. Now, if you've got a JR 2.4GHz radio, you have to buy a JR-brand receiver and if you've got a Futaba 2.4GHz radio, you have to buy a Futaba-brand receiver. I really think that RC makers are laughing all the way to the bank and breathing a sigh of relief that (for the time being) they've dodged the bullet that cheap "made in China" compatible products represented.

That is likely one of the most intelligent posts made for a long time in this thread. The advent of 2.4 Ghz must have been like winning the lotto for the manufacturers. I have no doubt that the sales of new equipment increased 10 fold in the past two or three years. When you go to an event with 600 plus registered pilots and 579 have new radios I think it tells a story. $$$$$$$$

[seattle_helo]

Speaking of receivers from China, I was down in Las Vegas a few months ago at a convention and was walking on the strip. At a little vendor booth on the sidewalk was a guy selling cheap $35 RC helicopters from China. Out of curiosity I picked up one of the boxes and noticed it said on a paper inside that it operated on channel 29 (72.370Mhz). Man was that a scary sight. The influx of these type of "toys" are a real shame. I thought all of that stuff was down on 27Mhz or at least anywhere else other than 72Mhz but apparently not.

nick

[USN_POPS]

	Quote: Originally Posted by seattle_helo
	Speaking of receivers from China, I was down in Las Vegas a few months ago at a convention and was walking on the strip. At a little vendor booth on the sidewalk was a guy selling cheap $35 RC helicopters from China. Out of curiosity I picked up one of the boxes and noticed it said on a paper inside that it operated on channel 29 (72.370Mhz). Man was that a scary sight. The influx of these type of "toys" are a real shame. I thought all of that stuff was down on 27Mhz or at least anywhere else other than 72Mhz but apparently not. nick

Not just on the street either. Most of the ones in the hobby shops are on 72 as well. I have one of the E-Sky Comanchi heli's and its on channel 21. Sure can't fly it close to any flying fields. But so far it's worked OK in my living room.

[Toumal]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	That is likely one of the most intelligent posts made for a long time in this thread. The advent of 2.4 Ghz must have been like winning the lotto for the manufacturers.

First of all, I think that's perfectly alright considering we've been sold 30-year-old technology up until recently. The amount of BS in the field of RC RF technology was incredible, with some companies claiming that their own (primitive, discrete) receiver was better than a DSP-enhanced, signal-recognizing MZK because of... uh, "better filters". Right.
Let them make good money with 2.4GHz, because at least it's not the same old 35/72 stuff anymore.

Second of all, compatibility: We live in an age of patent litigation. You can bet that there has been more than one meeting at any of the involved companies where an engineer suggested to go the compatibility route to one of the major other brands, and you can also imagine the weird looks from management on that. The fact is that avoiding other companies' patents often influences the design, which practically guarantees incompatible systems. I know what I'm talking about, we have the exact same problem where I work, and nothing is scarier than to see the suits come in and talk about having to do "TCP broadcasts" to avoid infringing some other company's idiotic bread-and-butter patent.

Third, I don't think the Chinese give a damn about FASST or Spektrum or anything like that. They make their own 2.4GHz systems already, and frankly those systems - albeit non-hopping - work better than what XPS is offering. For example:



This little feller is 100 bucks complete with 2.4GHz TX. It's a single-channel, non-hopping system that selects its channel on power-up. Sound familiar?
And guess what: It's not even crippled in range, and performs rock-solid. Oh and as soon as I showed up with the helo at our field, 5 other guys ordered one as well because that one's not bad either

I have little doubt that we'll see a frequency hopping system designed and made in China before too long. They don't care about compatibility anymore either because they can make their own systems just as well. Already, Walkera is selling a 10-model computerized radio, and it's only a matter of months until a 2.4 version of that one pops up.

To bring this whole thing back on topic: The moment you take the broken-by-design hopping-functionality of XPS out of the equation, the Chinese are blowing them out of the water already.

[easytiger]

Well, how about the art-tech one? It's on rcfreedom.com and it has frequency hopping and all...

[Panzlflyer]

Its those little 72mhz heli toys that made me go 2.4 as well.
Was at a fly-in a little while ago when one 72 mhz after another (8 or more) went in and they finally quit flying 72 for the rest of the event.
Seems a tower nearby was causing lockouts.(btw this has never happened before)
All of us on 2.4 carried on as if nothing had happened. This ticked off at least a couple of people on 72 who were still going on about "devil radios".
The $600 for my 9303 was well spent imo, dont care if JR made money or not and most of us at fly-ins seem to feel the same way.

[Kiwi]

They already have some excellent radios on the market and the link supplied below is just one of them.

This 9 channel radio is also supplied in 2.4 Ghz and I think it is the ASSAN system but I dont have proof on that.

Not too bad for a $200 or so radio anyway you look at it.

We too are seeing the toy class imports arriving here in 72Mhz channels and there have been a few unaccountable hits and lockouts at the local club. None with crashes so far but with these toys getting to be mainstream its only a matter of time.

http://www.wflysz.com/productsE.asp

[seattle_helo]

	Quote:
	They already have some excellent radios on the market and the link supplied below is just one of them. This 9 channel radio is also supplied in 2.4 Ghz and I think it is the ASSAN system but I dont have proof on that. Not too bad for a $200 or so radio anyway you look at it.

Wow, I had never seen that before. For $200 it does look very nice with some solid features.

	Quote:
	First of all, I think that's perfectly alright considering we've been sold 30-year-old technology up until recently. The amount of BS in the field of RC RF technology was incredible, with some companies claiming that their own (primitive, discrete) receiver was better than a DSP-enhanced, signal-recognizing MZK because of... uh, "better filters". Right. Let them make good money with 2.4GHz, because at least it's not the same old 35/72 stuff anymore.

I agree 100%. I'm actually a little amazed it has taken this long. I flew airplanes with my dad for ten years back in the 1980's and then got out of the hobby for a while after starting college. In 2004 when I became interested in RC once again, and specifically helicopters, I was surprised to find that RC systems were still operating on vulnerable single frequency channels. I figured they had advanced beyond that in some way after so many years. Little did I know the change would indeed happen in just a few more years- and I'm certainly happy it did.