Need help on 33% Battery/Switch/Reg Setup...

[Paul Cataldo]

Guys,
I'm currently trying to determine which batteries I want to use in my new Aeroworks 33% Extra 260.
I have used Duralites and Relions about 4 years ago, when the LIONS were the latest and greatest thing out.
Now I was planning on using some Fromeco Relions this time around too, BUT I just read something that really bothered me on this forum.
Apparently (according to what I read), the Smart Fly Ignition regulator that I purchased (and all the other Smart Fly regulators that I had PLANNED on purchasing) will slowly draw current, and over time, can kill a Relion pack, if left plugged in for long enough.
I absolutely HATE stuff like this. I am a simple man, and I DO NOT want to worry about my packs draining just because they are still plugged in after a couple weeks.
Now before anyone tells me to just "unplug your batteries man", well, I am also not the type who likes to constantly be unplugging/plugging the cheap connectors that we all use (JR/Hitec type connectors).
SO, then I go on to read that some of the Fromeco SWITCHES drain batteries too! Geez. Now I've gotta worry about switches too.
SO, can anyone tell me if there is a quality regulator that does NOT drain battery packs? (no, MPI and Duralite regulators are not quality).
Can anyone tell me which FAIL SAFE switches do NOT drain batteries?
I just don't want to have to worry about this stuff, ya know? I'm from the old school I guess.
Hell, what is the weight comparison between my two 2600 Relion Rx packs and single 2600 Ign Relion pack versus the same A123 setup???
If the A123 batteries are not THAT much heavier, maybe I'll switch to them, and not have to worry about regulators altogether??? (unless the IGN still has to have a regulator w/ A123's???? Dunno???)

[bubbagates]

Paul,

Smart Fly regs only use power is if you the failsafe switch that can plug into them. You do not have to do that. I use JR heavy duty switches or if I am using deans I'll use the MPI switches they sell and setup like this.

Li-ION -> Switch -> Reg -> receiver/Xpander/ignition.

As far as the Non-adjustable ignition regulator using power must be something new because I have several of them (all are one yr old or older) and not one uses power while off. If you are referring to the one that can be adjusted, again, get the non-adjustable one and set them up like the receiver setup described above.

I use this same setup on all of my planes and I never have had to unplug anything. Mine have been plugged in since day one and currently are sitting since this past december and I checked them all last night and all are still where they were from the last time I flew them.

I know this all can be confusing at times...

[Fly3DWithStyle]

Smart-Fly also has some great heavy duty switches which aren't the failsafe ones, wired up any way you want. Deans/JR, Deans/Deans etc.

http://smart-fly.com/Products/Switch/switch.htm

[mikel7099]

The pin flag switches are the switches that draw current and kill the batteries. That is why i use the Badger slider switch. My Yak sat all winter plugged in and still charged

[R-3]

Paul
I use the Digi-Switch by powerBox Systems www.PowerBox-Systems.com if you leave the digiswitch connected to the LiPo battery when it is switched off, then the unit goes into stand-by mode. The idle current in this state is around 5.0 micro-A, whitch is lower than any battery's natural rate of self-discharge.
R-3

[cjcyclesrc]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo
	Can anyone tell me which FAIL SAFE switches do NOT drain batteries? I just don't want to have to worry about this stuff, ya know? I'm from the old school I guess. Hell, what is the weight comparison between my two 2600 Relion Rx packs and single 2600 Ign Relion pack versus the same A123 setup??? If the A123 batteries are not THAT much heavier, maybe I'll switch to them, and not have to worry about regulators altogether??? (unless the IGN still has to have a regulator w/ A123's???? Dunno???)

Paul,
You won't find any Failsafe switches that don't drain your batteries. That is what makes them Failsafe. The switch is normally closed and takes power to open the circuit. If you are dead set on never unplugging your batteries and leaving your plane for months without charging it you should buy two high quality non failsafe switches like the ones in Fly3DWithStyle' link.

Charles

[Paul Cataldo]

	Quote: Originally Posted by cjcyclesrc
	Paul, You won't find any Failsafe switches that don't drain your batteries. That is what makes them Failsafe. The switch is normally closed and takes power to open the circuit. If you are dead set on never unplugging your batteries and leaving your plane for months without charging it you should buy two high quality non failsafe switches like the ones in Fly3DWithStyle' link. Charles

First off, thanks to everyone for clearing things up for me. Although I consider myself fairly knowledgeable, yes indeed things still can get a bit overwhelming at times, especially since I've just recently got back into R/C after taking the last 5 years off.

Charles, thanks so much for the reply above. That is what I needed to hear.
I was REALLY hoping to use only ONE Failsafe switch, but I just may use two for the reasons stated.
I have just one more concern, regarding the Cermark HD DSC Switches from SmartFly, via Fly3DWithStyles post above.

I see they have TWO output leads, both of which SmartFly's website says to plug into the Rx for the lowest current drop.
So WHAT IF I use TWO of these switches? Would I then need to have FOUR SLOTS in my Rx just for the DSC Switches output leads??? That's a mighty high number of open slots needed in my Rx for that! LOL. I'd have to switch to a Futaba 14MZ, no?
OR, do you guys just recommend plugging TWO TOTAL DSC output leads into the Rx???? (ie one output lead from each switch)??????
Thanks so much for the help guys...

[cjcyclesrc]

There are many ways you could hook them up. It really comes down to your personal preference. If you used 2 HD switches with a power expander it would make a nice set up. If you are using spektrum a AR9100 and two smart fly HD switches would work great.

Here is a link with some good diagrams.
http://smart-fly.com/Products/Expand...onnections.pdf

[GooseF22]

You can Y cord the other two with any servo

[Paul Cataldo]

Well let me ask you guys this.
My big concern has always been the cheap JR style connections. I am considering eliminating AS MANY of them as possible.
I mean, after all, IF I were to just plug-n-play, I would have a TREMENDOUS amount of JR type connectors in between each servo, and the batteries!
What do you guys think about this? I mean, let's just take any servo in the plane.
There is a connector between the servo and the extension. There is another connector where the extension physically plugs into the Rx. There is a connector where the Regulator plugs into the Rx. There is a connector where the Regulator plugs into the switch harness. There is a connector where the switch plugs into the battery.
This is a MINIMUM of FIVE JR style connectors in between EACH SERVO and the battery source.
HOW MUCH resistance is this???? Is this insane or what? Is this an issue on a 33% plane? YES, I know that many guys are flying 33%ers with NOTHING but JR style connectors, but I'd like to know IF it would be a really good idea to take the extra time to switch over to Deans Ultra anywhere I can possibly do so?
I know someone is going to say "well it can't hurt anything", but I would like to know IF I really should do this? Is anyone else doing so? Thanks guys...

[Hammbone]

As long as you have a switch between the battery and a reg, the reg will not drain the battery when the switch is off. If the switch is a failsafe switch, it will still drain the battery when off, but it is a very small amount. It would take 6 months to a year to drain it much at all. I live in a place where I don't get to fly much during the winter, so I will unplug my batteries for the winter. The rest of the year, I don't worry about it. As long as you fly and recharge at least once every month or two, you don't have to worry about the small amount of drain a failsafe switch will do.

As for your question about standard plugs, I am one who does not use them much on 33% planes and above. I use A123 batteries with Deans plugs, and Fromeco Kodiak switches with Deans plugs, going into a Power Expander with Deans plugs. There is one standard connector inline to each of my servos, and that is the connector on the servo itself, plugging into my Power Expander. I just like to know that my current flow is not limited by standard connectors.
Is this a necessity on a 33% plane? No, it is not. Standrad plugs do have limitations though. A standard plug is rated at 3 amps. It can probably handle a little more than that, but I go by the manufacturers rating.

It is my goal to provide enough current flow so that each one of my servos is capable of receiving 3 amps of current flow, all at once. I will never need this much current flow, but by setting it up this way, I know my current flow is never limited.
You have to decide for yourself how you want to set up your planes. Some guys just want the bare minimum. Some guys (like me) want to have a little cushion (or safety) built in.

Jim

[Paul Cataldo]

Hammbone,
Good post, and thanks.
However, I would disagree with one issue, and that is the "6 months/etc" statement you made. I know a couple guys who have damaged (ie destroyed) brand new Relion 2600 packs, after leaving the pack plugged into a failsafe switch for only a mere 2-3 weeks. Now they SAID their packs were almost fully charged, and drained after only 2-3 weeks, but this is just what they told me. I DO know that I would not even CONSIDER leaving a pack plugged into a failsafe switch for anywhere near 6 months. (yes, I know you did not recommend doing so either). However, I'm just stating that I THINK it would not even be possible for a pack to last anywhere near 6 months. I could be wrong however.
Thanks so much guys. Always interested in hearing about others who have done everything they can to OMIT standard connectors throughout their planes....

[cjcyclesrc]

I use as few of connections as I can and use deans when possible.

Attached are two pictures. The first one is my 87" yak that I run on two thunder power 1320mah lipos. The second is my new AR9100. I really like the idea of the 9100. I am going to solder deans ultra plugs on it and go straight from the A123's to the receiver.

[Paul Cataldo]

Nice pics. I have not yet purchased a 2.4ghz system (because the Futaba 10C is not out just yet), and I was totally unaware that the 2.4ghz Rx's were like this???? What is the deal? I would have thought they were just like 72mhz Rx's.
That IS what the AR9100 is, correct? Could you enlighten me on how Deans are possible with 2.4ghz Rx's??? I can't quite tell from the pic, exactly what's going on there?? It appears that the two leads with some type of blue colored connectors, might possibly be the battery inputs??
Do the servos plug into the AR9100 just like any other 72mhz Rx?

One last thing. The AR9100 IS a Rx right? (or is it something else????) LOL! As I said, I'm waiting for the Futaba 10C to come out in a couple months (hopefullly)....
Thanks so much CJCycles!

[Hammbone]

That's correct, the 9100 has 2 high current inputs for the batteries. However, it still has only one output per channel, like all other rx's. This still leads to bunching up multiple servos through one standard connector (for example, multiple rudder servos).
If they would develope a rx that also has multiple outputs like a Power Expander does, we would be in business then.

Jim