Decisions, decisions, decisions

[wildhare]

You need to consider several things, not just wing loading. Wing loading is important, but so is power to weight, strength, and overall layout.

If weight were the only criterion, then everybody would fly foamies and nothing else. If it was just wing loading that's important the best 3d plane would be the one with the biggest wing, and we all kinow that's not true.

What you are looking for is a plane with wing loading under 30 oz. per sq. foot and if possible under 28 oz. You want a thrust to weight ratio about 1.7 to 1, more if possible but this will give you excellent performance to do whatever you want. But there is a point where you can have too much power, the plane becomes difficult to control and the torque reaction and P factor become annoying.

Your DL-50 will put out almost 30 pounds of thrust, so you want to keep the weight at no more than 17-17.5 lbs. This assumes you are not flying at great altitudes, numbers change at higher altitudes. If you can get down under 17 lbs. you will be in great shape.

You also want a plane that's stable, has large control surfaces capable of large throws. The ailerons should come close to the fuselage to get good authority at low air speeds.

For my part, the Wild Hare Edge, Extra 300, Ultimate and Sukhoi all fit into these criteria. There are others that are good also.

I see no reason to trade strength for weight as long as you fit into the box. In other words, there's no good reason to go for a lighter plane once you get into that sub-17 pound area with your engine and have adequate wing area. Some airframe strength is always a benefit as long as it doesn't go over that 1.7 to 1 ratio.

TF

[bodywerks]

The difference in wing loading between the EF at 16.5 and the AW at 14.5 is a mere 1 ounce/sq.ft. The Airwild is definitely the lightest in its class, but it is not built to last. Your Aeroworks was heavy, but built to stay like new for several seasons. You have to make some compromise.
I have heard nothing but good things about the WH Sukhoi, too.
Quique also makes an 86" Yak that is one heck of a performance machine.
What don't you like about the EF Extra? I think it is one of the nicest looking 300's out there. You do know they make more than one scheme, too, right(if the scheme is what turs you off)?
Personally, for me, I like to have about a 26 ounce wingloading on a 82-88" 50cc plane.

[Henna_Ojisan]

I've owned the WH Extra and WH Sukhoi and both were great planes. I enjoy the Extra more (still have it) and it comes in at ~ 17lbs. I've flown my buddies EF Extra and it is an extremely nice plane and looks great in person too. It flies just like my WH and is built very well. All these planes are about the same weight, but what is very strange is that my WH Extra with a 84" wingspan flies just as light as the EF at the same weight. The subtle difference in wing loading is not noticable at all. You can't go wrong with any of them...

No experience with the AirWild setups, though I hear the words light and fragile. Would love to fly a sub 15lb. plane sometime though...

[Mister]

Ok, I have thrown the Airwild Extra out. I like extra 260's but not the 300's plus im kinda trying to go for something that wont get lost in the crowd. So now its down to the EF yak and the 3DHS Katana. Here is what I got for wing loading.

EF Yak at 16.5 lb = 26.21

3DHS Katana at 14.5 = 24.93

[BR289]

I have all the Extreme Flight stuff because they are priced right,built strong and light , and fly awesome!

[wildhare]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mister
	I like extra 260's but not the 300's

I'm very curious why you like one over the other. Looks?

I ask because a lot of people don't know that the 260 and 300 (not 300S or 300L) as a model are the same plane except fopr the length of the canopy. Is that what you don't like, the longer canopy?

TF

[Mister]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wildhare
	I'm very curious why you like one over the other. Looks? I ask because a lot of people don't know that the 260 and 300 (not 300S or 300L) as a model are the same plane except fopr the length of the canopy. Is that what you don't like, the longer canopy? TF

I know it sounds dumb but yes.

[mikel7099]

3 D Hobby Shop Katana kicks ass hands down

[Al Lewis]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mister
	I dont understand. Please some explain to me how all the planes yall have responded with are at least 16lb+ planes. The airwild extra and the 3DHS Katana are coming in at 14.5. I would think the weight would play a huge roll in this. Thats kinda what im basing my decisions on. Am i wrong to say the lighter the plane the better it will be with 3D? I have also heard goods and bads about the EF yak. Seems like to get the power you want you need to run a tuned pipe. I dont want to deal with tuned pipes again.

Evidently you haven't caught on tho the fact that a plane with an 18.5 pound take-off weight will hover at nearly high idle running a DL-50 with a Vess 23A. The weights you are looking at will, in all likelihood, result in tearing the firewall off of the plane due to its light build.

[Mister]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Al Lewis
	Evidently you haven't caught on tho the fact that a plane with an 18.5 pound take-off weight will hover at nearly high idle running a DL-50 with a Vess 23A. The weights you are looking at will, in all likelihood, result in tearing the firewall off of the plane due to its light build.

Ohhhh, I get it. I honestly had no idea that the DL50 was that powerful of an engine. So the lighter the airframe the weaker?

[mikel7099]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mister
	Ohhhh, I get it. I honestly had no idea that the DL50 was that powerful of an engine. So the lighter the airframe the weaker?

Some say more power than a DA.

[vsnap]

No not lighter, the airframe can be light and strong. You have to be careful how the plane is constructed when lightening them up. You are looking for lighter wing loading like previously stated but at the same time you don't want to give up too much of your strength of build.
Todays building techniques have given us the ability to Cad Design, and test structural strength prior to the first build. Add to this Laser cutting and now we can remove mass from the structure that carries very little value to the structural strength in key areas. This enables us to product planes with 87" wing spans 1450 + sqin wing area that look huge compared to our previous 50cc models of the 90's and early 00's. Then once that is done you look to using lighter components to acheive the desired result, we accomplished this with our 50cc series by using carbon fiber tubes and tail wheel mounts as a stock item. This creates a well balanced and light weight airframe that can use 50cc engines without much concern for weight and lack of flying ability.

[dpoles]

I can't answer your question directly, but just wanted to say that 3DH is a FANTASTIC company to deal with. Amazing customer support before the sale and they will take care of you afterwards also. Dealing with them has been one positive after another. Ben is also very fast at answering any emails etc.

Just a standup organization. I am a very loyal customer now. I believe in sending my $$ to companies I believe in.

[mikel7099]

	Quote: Originally Posted by dpoles
	I can't answer your question directly, but just wanted to say that 3DH is a FANTASTIC company to deal with. Amazing customer support before the sale and they will take care of you afterwards also. Dealing with them has been one positive after another. Ben is also very fast at answering any emails etc. Just a standup organization. I am a very loyal customer now. I believe in sending my $$ to companies I believe in.

Agreed ben is great and stands behind his products

[lazyboyflyer]

If I had to decide between the two, I would get the EF Yak! Park those two planes side by side and compare. Choose the EF yak!