Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig
	Perhaps I should not have said anything? Went flying with my AcroMaster - AR6200 Spektrum rx. Drove home to solder a connector to a new Hacker/Flightpower 3s2500 pack, charged the battery and went back to the flying field. Left the model in the car for the whole time. Outside temperature approx. 22°C, but full sun. Back at the flying field, the AR6200 would not link to the tx - went straight into Smart Failsafe. That has never happened before. Back at home I re-checked and everything was working fine. I am puzzled. Jürgen

Good news - bad news. The problem I was having with my brand new AR6200 obviously is not temperature related. It happened again today. I had two flights before lunch - no problem - and when I went out again later in the afternoon, the rx would not connect to my tx.

When I brought the model in the shade of the club house, I could see the LED of the satellite rx blinking rapidly, but very dim. 15 minutes and suddenly everything was back to normal. I tried to duplicate the problem, put model and rx in the hot car, but the problem did not re-occur. I decided not to to take any risk.

At home, the problem was back, and I took a short video of the dim blinking LED. I also noticed, that I could not get the rx into bindung mode in this condition.

Finally I replaced the brand new AR6200 (made in China, came with my DX6i) with a separately bought AR6200 (made in Taiwan). I hate intermittent problems.

Jürgen

[Mode1Mike]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Well it seems to get interesting if you look around and find the operational limits of most of the gadgets you use daily and some that you would call critical. I'n not going to fill this post up with other similar item specs but my hunt using google on common brand products shows some very startling information. Take our faithful iPhone for example. Environmental requirements Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C) Nonoperating temperature: -4° to 113° F (-20° to 45° C) Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m) Go have a look around at the other critical items you use with great faith every day. In fact it seems that if the FASST limit is 155 F then its actually a very sturdy piece of equipment and has a higher tolerance level than most other consumer electronics. Now I'm not saying that good or bad for FASST but it does seem that it operates above the norm. So could it possibly be that this operational issue sets a new level of acceptance for this consumer electronic device?? One that exceeds what was a totally acceptable standard before.!!!

At least they have a spec for the temperature! and they do not mention R/C aircraft.

[grayuk]

Had a good day today with both Jets ambient temp 20C.
No problems at all.

I know that is not that hot, but it is fairly typical for England.

Normal max temp here on a hot summer day is around 25C to 30C so I feel we are OK here except for exceptional days.
I will still be ‘aware’ now of keeping the canopy shaded on those ‘hot’ days!
Paul

enc. My Hawk today.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mode1Mike
	Judge Are you an official representative of Futaba and spokesman?

As I have made clear on numerous occasions, I am neither. I am on Team Futaba as a Field Representative. I get a free shirt and hat as well as free service. I am not paid or otherwise compensated in any manner.

Some feel that this makes me biased and nothing more than a shill for Futaba. Hence my signature.

But that aside, it does not change the accuracy of my statement above. So far Futaba has not made a determination or issued an advisory relative to this heat issue.

It also bears little on my basic point that we need to wait until Futaba figures this out. I think people are over reacting a bit too. Both my own opinions, which are the only opinions anyone can have, their own.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by grayuk
	I will still be ‘aware’ now of keeping the canopy shaded on those ‘hot’ days! Paul

So I guess for those that want to fly when it is blazing hot out we need to amend some sayings, like:

Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen venture into the noon day sun. Oh, and some RC pilots too!!

[grayuk]

I say,
Stiff upper lip, dont you know.
Anyone for tiffin?
Or perhaps a nice cup of tea (sorry Boston)


Yes ...mad dogs and RC pilots go out in the mid day sun

[catman3070]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Well it seems to get interesting if you look around and find the operational limits of most of the gadgets you use daily and some that you would call critical. I'n not going to fill this post up with other similar item specs but my hunt using google on common brand products shows some very startling information. Take our faithful iPhone for example. Environmental requirements Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C) Nonoperating temperature: -4° to 113° F (-20° to 45° C) Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m) Go have a look around at the other critical items you use with great faith every day. In fact it seems that if the FASST limit is 155 F then its actually a very sturdy piece of equipment and has a higher tolerance level than most other consumer electronics. Now I'm not saying that good or bad for FASST but it does seem that it operates above the norm. So could it possibly be that this operational issue sets a new level of acceptance for this consumer electronic device?? One that exceeds what was a totally acceptable standard before.!!!

Last time I checked we're not using iPhones to operate our aircraft.

[Kiwi]

The idea is to show you that most consumer electronics are rated at around about 40 C. Very few have the ability to cope with more than that.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is this is almost certainly an unforeseen event. Most engineers would figure a system capable of working in a 55 C plus environment is pretty darned good and in fact it likely is. Its just we have now found a situation where it can be exceeded.

However I bet that 90% of the people reading or using these FASST systems will never experience it. Thats not saying they should forget about it or ignore it, it as ignorance is no excuse.

But its not the end of the world, you can do things to prevent this happening, you do not need to park up all your planes. If the day is in the mid 60's to 70's your not in any danger. If your in the 90's and above you need to look at ventilation, location, maybe some shielding but I tell you what it wont stop me me flying my FASST stuff and I just purchased four new Rx's today. I know its an issue and I can live with it by being sensible.

Or I can bitch and moan for a few weeks and miss some darned good flying days and events and blame it all on FUTABA.

I think I like to fly more so than cry so I go with taking measures to be sure it wont happen. In the time being FUTABA can go about sorting out an action plan and implementing it as soon as they practically can.

[RH1N0]

	Quote: Originally Posted by catman3070
	Last time I checked we're not using iPhones to operate our aircraft.

OK. How about this as a comparison: http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/so...lti-Functi.pdf

Typical standard for military avionics environmental testing is MIL-STD-810F. I wouldn't expect RC manufacturers to test to this standard but they should use the basic methodology in their design and V&V activities.

.

[Kiwi]

Thats why they keep the air-con running at the gate then. right!!?????

[sailing1]

Well this is by no means scientific, but it is real world. I have a Wild Hare 35% Sukhoi running on a Smart Fly power expander, smart fly Super Reg at 6.5 volts from two 2800 LiIon battery's. I am running 9 Hitec 5955 servos. The RF6014 is mounted under the big smoked canopy but not real high up. It sits right on top of the power expander.

Today in Oklahoma it was about 75 degrees, not hot by any means.

Before I took the plane from the garage I measured 65 degrees which was the ambient of my garage. I then set the fuse with canopy on outside in the back of a black pickup for two hours before going to the field. At the end of the two hours in the direct sun the pickup bed sides, inside and out measured between 115 and 125 depending on where I took the temp. The temp of the reciever inside the plane with the sun shinning in was exactly 82.

Drove to the field and made a point of setting the plane so the sun would shine through the canopy onto the receiver. The plane set for an hour while I flew another plane then measured the temp on the reciever. It was still not out of the 80-90 degree range. After my first flight I or about 12 minutes I took the canopy off and measure the temp at 85degrees. After that I got tired of measuring.

Now it is not that hot here right now (thought the thermal was hot enough in the back of that black pickup) to really cook a reciever in a plane, but I was not seeing the kind of temp raise that would force me to quit flying. I didn't see any temp rise from the electronics and at least in my instillation I would think a little common sense and maybe some well placed foam and reflective material would make me feel pretty comfrotable when the temp comes up. I still want to see what Futaba says about temperature related shut downs, but I am not going to let it ruin my fun if I can be smart about addressing the situation.

[RH1N0]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	Thats why they keep the air-con running at the gate then. right!!?????

Yes! Because the equipment operates as intended when operated in the intended operational environment.

And also because it keeps the passangers happy

[3dubya]

Im running the FASST receiver with no faults, its winter time here so temps not that high. Can i draw on peoples knowledge here for the best heat stickers that would fit on receiver and record the highest temps it's ever got too, and need to be pulled off and thrown away to be reset. Ones that people have used maybe or know that are good. Please provide links to online purchase places like this which i don't think is one that hold the highest temps it changes back when cooled.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/...e_temp_sticker

[catman3070]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	The idea is to show you that most consumer electronics are rated at around about 40 C. Very few have the ability to cope with more than that. I suppose what I'm trying to say is this is almost certainly an unforeseen event. Most engineers would figure a system capable of working in a 55 C plus environment is pretty darned good and in fact it likely is. Its just we have now found a situation where it can be exceeded. However I bet that 90% of the people reading or using these FASST systems will never experience it. Thats not saying they should forget about it or ignore it, it as ignorance is no excuse. But its not the end of the world, you can do things to prevent this happening, you do not need to park up all your planes. If the day is in the mid 60's to 70's your not in any danger. If your in the 90's and above you need to look at ventilation, location, maybe some shielding but I tell you what it wont stop me me flying my FASST stuff and I just purchased four new Rx's today. I know its an issue and I can live with it by being sensible. Or I can bitch and moan for a few weeks and miss some darned good flying days and events and blame it all on FUTABA. I think I like to fly more so than cry so I go with taking measures to be sure it wont happen. In the time being FUTABA can go about sorting out an action plan and implementing it as soon as they practically can.

I couldn't agree more. The receiver I tested yesterday was installed in my plane today and will be flown at Joe Nall. However I will be sure to keep the canopy covered to keep the sun out of the plane.

Reading through the post it appears most problems have been receivers in direct sunlight under the canopy. Most have also been in composite aircraft. Could this be the composites holding the temp inside more than a wood plane?

Chane

[catman3070]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 3dubya
	Im running the FASST receiver with no faults, its winter time here so temps not that high. Can i draw on peoples knowledge here for the best heat stickers that would fit on receiver and record the highest temps it's ever got too, and need to be pulled off and thrown away to be reset. Ones that people have used maybe or know that are good. Please provide links to online purchase places like this which i don't think is one that hold the highest temps it changes back when cooled. http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/...e_temp_sticker

Now this could be a good idea, I can get these from work. I use them all the time to measure what the temps are inside generators and UPS systems.