Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[bgold]

The first time I saw a plane with one of those funny looking covers streched over it I ask what it's purpose was and the answer I got was it's to keep the plane cooler, out in the sun the covering can wrinkle and inside the fusalage it will get so hot the radio won't work. Did this guy have ESPN or has this problem been around for years.

[reyn3545]

I've got 4 planes on the 6014, all but 1 have the receiver exposed through a clear canopy. One of these is a composite, with canister mufflers (they are exposed inside the fuse, no shield between them and anything else), the rest are wood ARF's... I haven't seen any problems. I typically don't cover my canopy, but I do move the planes into the shade if I'm not flying. I've been out on some pretty hot days (mid 80's), but we're not really getting into summertime temps yet.

[Flyfalcons]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bgold
	Did this guy have ESPN or has this problem been around for years.

You're going to have to ask Comcast.

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by notorious_benny
	... In the meantime I will be purchasing a Spektrum Airmod module for my brand new 14MZ so I can fly my planes without the uneasiness of 'thinking' there is a problem. Yes I will be down to 8 channels for a few months but I wont be worrying about hiding my plane in the shade.

And what is the operational temperature range for JR/Spektrum gear?

-15C to +55°C

If you exceed those limits, the RC manufacturer is not responsible for equipment malfunction - You are!

Jürgen

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bgold
	The first time I saw a plane with one of those funny looking covers streched over it I ask what it's purpose was and the answer I got was it's to keep the plane cooler, out in the sun the covering can wrinkle and inside the fusalage it will get so hot the radio won't work. Did this guy have ESPN or has this problem been around for years.

We covered our RC model aircraft when sitting in the sun for decades. Nothing new here really.

Jürgen

[1bwana1]

Jurgen,
I'm not sure what your agenda is, but you keep bringing up the published specs of the JR system. No one has reported a heat related failure of the JR system. More than a few have reported heat related failures of the Futaba system, that is the point of this thread. Let's stop the brand comparison stuff, and focus on what we can learn about the Futaba heat issue. Your posts are simply not helping us learn what we need to learn.

[bgold]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	You're going to have to ask Comcast.

Old jokes, When women got PMS men got ESPN, does that guy have ESP, no ESPN.
Sorry, I lost control.
Bill

[Judge]

It is still kind of curious to me that nobody really talked about this until 2 weeks ago when Yuri's issue was posted. Suddenly there are a host of "Me too" posts. I am NOT saying this is not happening, but it is sort of odd that nobody mentioned it sooner. Perhaps we just had to wait for it to get hotter.

It is also kind of odd (fortunate?) that the failures seem to happen on the ground. Probably just some sort of coincidence I suppose.

It makes me wonder if perhaps one batch of RXs got made with some heat sensitive component. One with a lower temperature threshold. Something seems to have changed. And other than Yuri, has anyone sent in a RX that suffered this fault?

It will be very interesting to hear what Futaba determines. I hope it is soon too, with summer heat on the way and people freaked out about using their 6014 RXs time is critical.

I think Jurgen's point is that all electronic components have a temperature range that they are spec'd for. We usually don't pay any attention to it, but maybe now we need to.

As far as why this appears to be mostly in large aerobatic planes I think that may be because that is where most people are going to use a 14 channel RX.

A very curious situation that is just another example of how weird the wonderful world of electronics can be!!

As far as what we can learn, I think that most everything now is in the hands of the Futaba engineers. They are the only ones who can really give us a definitive answer. All I know is that I would hate to be the guy who designed this thing, because you know he's got a lot of people staring him down right now!!

[reyn3545]

I'm gonna put my helmet on.. I don't want to get hit with the fallout from that post!

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by 1bwana1
	Jurgen, I'm not sure what your agenda is, but you keep bringing up the published specs of the JR system. No one has reported a heat related failure of the JR system. More than a few have reported heat related failures of the Futaba system, that is the point of this thread. Let's stop the brand comparison stuff, and focus on what we can learn about the Futaba heat issue. Your posts are simply not helping us learn what we need to learn.

There is no agenda. While some RC gear manufacturers give you a well defined temperature range (Graupner/JR, Multiplex, etc. for example), Futaba just tells you in the instruction manual to "avoid extreme temperatures". While no other information is given for receivers, I found limits for Futaba gyros (-10°C to 45°C) and Futaba servos (-20° to 60°C).

Perhaps modern 2.4GHz components are more sensitive to heat? Even the Military is using more and more COTS (Commercial-off-the-Shelf) products, requiring aircraft to be air conditioned prior to turning systems on. Our RC gear is not tested to MIL-Spec, yet it is usually very robust and can take a lot of abuse (heat, shock, vibration etc.).

The FASST receivers have a current consumption of approx. 75/80mA. That is 10 to 20 times higher than a conventinal PPM rx. Therefore, (@5V) they always run approx. 10°F warmer than ambient temperature. If you run them at a higher voltage than 5V, they should run even hotter.

Lessons learned: Run your equipment within specs and you should be fine.

Jürgen

[KIM]

could we move on this is getting old hat for sure if you dont like it dont buy it

[grayuk]

I have had no response to my previous request for info on the rx under the canopy and large models etc…
So, I make the assumption that the only failures have been in large Aerobatic type models with large canopies and the rx in view.

Other reports state that guys flying jets in the Florida sun have had no issues.
There does not seem to be reports of issues from other sectors.
So the common denominator here is the rx under the canopy.
Now, I am not saying that Futaba do not need to look into this in a hurry, but, why not move the rx’s out of the canopy?
Place them somewhere more akin to a normal install and see if the problem goes away.
There is no doubt that being under a canopy will create a massive heat rise over and above normal, why expose the rx to that anyway?
Consider the sun, a magnifying glass and a piece of paper!

The point Jurgen was making was simply that by changing from FASST to Spekrtum you have not gained much benefit, the units fail at high temps as does XPS.
The difference is a few degrees in reality.

I think Futaba need to investigate (of course) and come up with a solution or proposal but I feel we need to reconsider this type of install; it cannot be good for any rx.
As has been said, maybe the problem existed on 72/35 meg, but because it needed a high temp to fail it was less obvious and has always been attributed to something else.

Paul

[lazun]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig
	And what is the operational temperature range for JR/Spektrum gear? -15C to +55°C If you exceed those limits, the RC manufacturer is not responsible for equipment malfunction - You are! Jürgen

The thing, it is failing within spec range!!!! If you want to talk about who is responsible leave it to the courts to decide.

[1bwana1]

	Quote: Originally Posted by grayuk
	The point Jurgen was making was simply that by changing from FASST to Spekrtum you have not gained much benefit, the units fail at high temps as does XPS. The difference is a few degrees in reality. Paul

I don't recall ever seing a report of a Spektrum system failing due to heat because it was mounted under the canopy. Can you point me to one?

[lazun]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Fish07
	Another one....huumm,this sounds suspicios to....

I guess you can stop with the conspiracy theory since Yuri’s name came up!!! Jason Krause failed 3 RX's (7ch, 8ch, 14ch). You should thank your Futaba team members for being honest and thinking about the modelers and bringing a concern to light as the weather starts to heat up. I admire that in my cousin. And it makes me believe in TEAM FUTABA!!!! Don't worry, someone smarter than us will let us know what we or they are doing wrong.