Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by reyn3545
	You're missing one key point... a 14 channel receiver should be designed for giant scale airplanes with greenhouse effect canopies! What else can you possibly put that many servos in?

A giant scale glider for one.

Ailerons x2
Spoilers x2
flaps x2
rudder
elevator
tow release
retracts
wheel brake

That's 11

Jets also use a bunch of channels.

But I agree, giant scale aerobatic planes are probably the most common application.

But again, until we know the actual root cause we cannot point fingers. It is all idle speculation right now.

It may turn out to be an unanticipated design flaw. It might be a bad batch of components. It might just be that they really did not take into account the end user environment. So while it is amusing to speculate, it will be even more interesting to know what is actually going on.

[grayuk]

	Quote: Originally Posted by reyn3545
	You're missing one key point... a 14 channel receiver should be designed for giant scale airplanes with greenhouse effect canopies! What else can you possibly put that many servos in?

No i think you are missing the point actually, I am not saying dont use it, all i am saying is, get it out of direct sunlight.
Jets also use a large amount of servos/channels that is why I brought it.

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by grayuk
	... Reported failure temps of the RX body is 167 F. 75C. ... Just looking at the 70C for a moment and put it into context , the highest ever recorded temp on earth was 56.7 °C (134.0 °F) Death Valley, California USA 10 July 1913. ...

Hi Paul,

you must have missed this part of the discussion:

http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/452476-post383.html

and I can beat your temperature record (although not by much): 57,3°C on 13. Sept. 1922 in El Assisija (Africa).

Jürgen

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by reyn3545
	You're missing one key point... a 14 channel receiver should be designed for giant scale airplanes with greenhouse effect canopies! What else can you possibly put that many servos in?

The key point here is, that the smaller FASST receivers (and iFS/XPS receivers ?!) are failing at similar temperatures. Again: Use your equipment within the operational temperature range specified by the manufacturer and you should not have a problem. Futaba unfortunately only says "avoid extreme tempertures", other manufacturerers are more specific, but no one gives you 55+C°.

Jürgen

[grayuk]

Yes you are right, Africa wins by 1 degree, (must have missed that) Doe...

[Reckless Loony]

	Quote: Originally Posted by grayuk
	So if the failure temp is 167F/75C without any radiant heating or greenhouse effect the rx can take an ambient temp of 158F or 70C.

That is actually a high temperature tolerance. Majority of RC stuff can’t handle temperatures that high. JR doesn’t publish operating temperature range for its products but if you look at Hitec servos e.g.

http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file.../HS-6975HB.pdf

Maximum temperature is

60deg C (140F)

And then there is the very popular but very reliable (better than JR gyro’s) Futaba GY401 gyro.

http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/futm0807-manual.pdf

It has a mere 45deg C (113F) maximum temperature rating. The electronics are housed in a small black plastic case.

The gyro for the Raptor and Trex 600E is mounted on top at the back where it is exposed to full sunlight.

I have a few of those gyros and have on occasionally flown a heli fitted with one on a 38deg C (100F) day including a Raptor and Trex 600E. Mind you my heli's are under cover in the shade and then get flown 10 minutes then get placed back under shade.

On hot days like that though I tend to be in front of an air conditioner or out scuba diving rather than be doing RC.

People at the club generally tend to stop flying when it starts to get that hot and end up going home.

BTW the maximum operating temperature for Lipo batteries is 60deg C (140F).

The moral here is don’t just get fixated with the operating temperature range of the Rx but also consider the other electronics such as servos and voltage regulators and their maximum operating temperature rating and take appropriate action.

I mostly fly helicopters but still fly my planes on occasion. The temperature during summer can get as hot as 45deg C (113F) although usually it just goes to the high 30’s C.

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Reckless Loony
	... JR doesn’t publish operating temperature range for its products ... And then there is the very popular but very reliable (better than JR gyro’s) Futaba GY401 gyro. http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/futm0807-manual.pdf It has a mere 45deg C (113F) maximum temperature rating. The electronics are housed in a small black plastic case. The gyro for the Raptor and Trex 600E is mounted on top at the back where it is exposed to full sunlight. ...

As mentioned before: Graupner/JR receivers are rated -15°C to +55°C.

I also mentioned the lower limit of the gyro before. It is only exposed to direct sunlight when standing in the sun or is not covered and once "the big fan" is running, temperature should not be a major concern.

Jürgen

[Lance J.]

has anyone done the heat gun test to the r608 and gotten them to fail ?

[diamondave5]

you know no one ever told me not to mount a reciever under the canopy, alot of arfs have a perfect little tray next to the rudder servo just for that, i see it in pictures in instruction manuals mounted there, so its a common place to put them, given that i flew all last summer in tucson with my pcm in the exact same spot and had no issues, then at the end of april had a 2.4 fail in same location mounted same way, id say there is something going on, it was only mid to upper 80's the day mine failed, that is by no means extreme in my opinion

[ken crane]

sorry i dont mean to be a turd in the punch bowl but...no one told me not to let my battery get below 3.5 volts on my ar7100. look at my avatar. that is what happened. i keep that picture to remind me how important details are. 167 f is pretty darn hot . if the inside of any plane is getting this warm more than the reciever may be affected. looking back to the beginning of this thread it was started on the 25th of last month. mean testing and a correction takes way more time than that. if people are having issues in high ambient temps the first thing that should be done before just bashing the product is fix the high ambiant temp problem. 2.4 is new in relation to 14 mz. that has been tested and beat to death for the last 30 years. we are now the guys that were the guys that shook the bugs out then. things are going to happen. we might not like it but its a fact no matter how hard you try and force a product to fail it will fail in a way no one ever expected. in the world i live in i am mrfixit. we find the problems, duplicate the problem , duplicate it again and again. give the engineers the facts and only the facts no emotion. they sort out the issue and either say it is as we designed it or produce a fix. yes people loose planes it sucks i know been there done that. its the chance we take by being the first. i have to say i wouldnt swap my dx7 (or 2.4) for any reason unless they banned it. the advantages far out weight the negs.i am sure that this will be sorted out just as spektrum has fixed their issues. no punches thrown here just trying to shed light on the facts.

[reyn3545]

Hey.. who put that turd in the punch bowl?

[ken crane]

	Quote: Originally Posted by reyn3545
	Hey.. who put that turd in the punch bowl?

i knew that would come back to bite me.

[Woketman]

Judge said: "For a guy who professes not to be an engineer you seem to think you have a very firm grasp of what it takes from an engineering standpoint to diagnose and fix a potentially complex problem.

I'm impressed. Perhaps you should hop on a jet over to Japan and set those dolts straight!!"

Who said that I am not an engineer??? That is EXACTLY what I am (aerospace, not electrical). And why go to Japan? After Katrina hit and the New Orleans area was wiped out, work sent me to Marshal Space Flight Center in Huntsville for a month & a half. I soon spotted a large Futaba facility near Huntsville's airport. One day I wandered in there to inquire if they built or designed R/C stuff there. The receptionist was clueless, so I never really received a decent answer. But someone here or R/C U or R/C Groups said that they did indeed do 2.4 design work there.

[Judge]

Sorry, I got you confused with another post. So being an engineer makes it even harder for me to understand your unreasonable demands for instantaneous results. Oh well. I am certain every time a design issue is brought up to you and your colleagues at work that you have found the cause and engineered a solution the same day. Otherwise why would you expect Futaba to do the same thing??

As far as the Huntsville facility, that is the home of Futaba RC USA. I am not aware that any actual design goes on there, but I could be wrong about that. I have never heard anyone refer to that facility regarding design, etc. I know they do some product testing, etc. but as far as I know all actual design is done in Japan.

I am certain that Futaba IS working on this and that they DO take it seriously. I do not think that there is any reason to read anything into their "silence".

[Woketman]

Anyway, back to what I was saying: Futaba certainly already knows if there is or is not an issue. And if they do not know that, they are mo-rons (I don't believe that). So why not issue a warning if there is an issue or a statement saying there is not an issue if there is not an issue?

Could they honestly think that the silence is helping them?