Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[high alpha]

....

[JagerBomb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by high alpha
	Pot calling the kettle black.... .

.

[Radioactive]

Best to wait and get some feedback from Futaba, i'm sure they do testing and offer a directive as needed.

[Georg Schamberger]

I Changed to futaba some days ago after having problems with Spektrum which are already discussed.I put the 6ex Module into my Royal Evo9, so i have 7 Channels.
I will use it until Futaba offers Modules for MPX.
Its a bad Status for Futaba, this heat Problem, after the problems with the 6ex and ff7 (missing code numbers)
but i hope they get the problems under control, especially in larger and more expensive planes it would not be good to have a receiver making evening when sun comes out
Greez
Georg

[BR289]

As was posted before, lets just see what this leads too. The brand war crap is nothing but garbage. I work at a local hobby shop and a large one at that and seequite a few of the "Other" brands products come back. I have tested a bunch of the Futaba 6ExA 2.4 stuff along with the 7 channel modules and havent had any that had the problem that Futaba posted a bulletin about.
This could be a problem and I am hopefull that Futaba will find a solution but for those that think Futaba is the only one that has any problems and wish to make stupid comments, go away, there isnt any reason for you to even be on this thread.
Go to your local field and make your comments as no one here wants to hear them...

[Judge]

I can tell you that Futaba (and I mean Futaba Corporation, not just Hobbico/Great Planes) is aware of this potential issue and is actively looking into it. I am confident that once they determine if there is indeed an issue that they will engineer a solution and take care of it.

[lazun]

Here is the information found on the R6014FS 2.4 receivers:

This last week we have had two different 6014 LEDs go red and into fail-safe on the ground at engine start-up and with the engine off. They would not go green unless we cycled the power to the receiver. This happened four times, with each receiver at the flying field. We sent these two receivers back for service and installed two new 6014s. Being afraid to fly with any 6014 receiver, we had them on for about four hours at different times in two different aircraft. One of these was a brand new 40% aircraft with only three flights on it and has been working on it for the last four months. The last test we did, we are sure we have found the problem.

We had the aircraft assembled in the driveway. Around noon in Arizona the outside air temp was 81 degrees F. The aircraft was on for about 10 minutes. Both the receivers went into fail-safe staying red for 52 minutes. We were only able to get them to work by turning the power off for intervals of two to five minutes and it would then work only for a matter of seconds (2-30 seconds) and then go red. We decided to roll the plane into the shade. We turned the power off for 5 minutes. Then powered up too find they worked fine for 20 minutes. We then decided to shoot them with a temperature gun and they were 102 degrees F in the shade. It was now 24 minutes of no failed problems. We moved the aircraft into the sun and in 5 minutes one receiver failed. Its temperature read at 164 degrees F about one minute later, the other receiver failed at 165 degrees F.

We did the test a second time starting in the shade with the receivers being off and their temperature cooled down to 97 degrees F. At 1:03 pm with the temperature at 97 degrees F we turned the receivers back on. We put the aircraft in the sun. At 1:08 pm the temperature of the receiver case rose to 163 degrees F and one failed. The second one failed two minutes later at 1:10 pm at 165 degrees F.

He has been flying one of these receivers since January. He has had no problems till two weeks ago when the temperatures began rising from about 65-75 degrees F to the current 80-85 degrees F (which will soon be 110-120 degrees F.) We are aware that black obviously attracts and absorbs a tremendous amount of heat. The receivers are mounted up high at the base of the canopy. The sole purpose of their location is so the antennas are up high into the canopy so as to receive a clear signal. On another side note which we noted, we have already had about five small signal interruptions where I temporarily lost control, most likely due to carbon blockage.

The third and final test included making a shield out of balsa wood and special aluminum, heat-shielding tape which basically acted as a canopy over the receivers so they were not exposed to direct sunlight. Below is a chart of our findings. However, the end result is that after 4 minutes with the canopy on, one of the receivers failed. We opened the canopy immediately, removed the heat-shielding umbrella and read the temperature of the receiver case which was a surprising 135 degrees F.




Air Temperature at time of test 82°F


TIME (PM) TEMPERATURE (Left/Right) TESTS and FINDINGS
12:52 Rx 84*F / 84*F turned both receivers on with aircraft in shade

12:54 Rx 92*F / 92*F on in shade

12:56 Rx 94*F / 94*F on in shade

1:07 Rx 98*F / 98*F on in shade

1:12 (20 min.) Rx 99* / 100*F on in shade

1:15 Rx 100*F / 102*F on in shade

1:16 moved into sun

1:18 Rx 129*F / 133*F in sun

1:19 Rx 148*F / 149*F in sun

1:20 Rx 156*F / 157*F in sun

1:21 Rx 157*F / 158*F in sun

1:23 Rx 159*F / 160*F left receiver failed
(7min. in sun)

1:24 Rx 160*F / 162*F right receiver failed

1:25 Rx 129*F / 130*F blew compressed air on receivers, they cooled but still did not come back

1:26 moved plane into shade

1:27 Rx 108*F / 123*F right receiver came back

1:28 Rx 108*F / 123*F left receiver came back

1:39 Rx 103*F / 105*F both still working in shade



TIME (PM) TEMPERATURE (Left/Right) TESTS and FINDINGS
1:40 covered receivers with shield and moved plane into sun – canopy off

1:45 heat shield at 85*F

1:47 Rx 115*F (under shield) lifted shield slightly, not letting sunlight hit receivers and read temperature of right receiver only

1:49 No temperatures read put canopy on aircraft

1:53 Rx 135*F receiver failed

Moved plane into shade, took off canopy, read temperature of receiver at 135 degrees F. Let it cool on its own in shade and receiver began working again at 108 degrees F.

End of test!! We’ve seen enough!

We obviously do not know the internal temps of the receivers. We are just measuring the case temps. The conclusion is that it will be impossible to operate the RX in the summer no matter what you try to do. The tolerance is get too low.

We believe this will be a serious issue especially in Arizona as temperatures steadily increase. We don’t believe that 135 degrees F is an acceptable temperature to have any radio equipment stop working. We believe any receivers should be able to sit in a model and still perform flawlessly! The IC chip probably needs a thicker case to act as a heat sink. We’ve seen at least a half-dozen of these receivers mounted under canopies. We will see the issue rise more and more now that the temperatures are rising.

[Judge]

Can you post more info on the actual installation? Servos type and number, power boxes, etc.?

[rcflyer]

Lazun, are you using a graphite fuselage?

[canavanbob]

Someone suggested wrapping the receiver in lots of foam to keep the temp out. That could possibly (probably) be the worst thing to do. The foam will keep the heat generated within the receiver inside the receiver. I've never seen an electronic device that had a warning to wrap in foam to keep the temperature down, only a warning to keep the ventilition slots unblocked to provide cooling.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by canavanbob
	Someone suggested wrapping the receiver in lots of foam to keep the temp out.

That was me and it was when I thought the RX was getting hot from exposure to the direct sunlight, in which case foam would insulate it.

If heat is being generated inside the RX, then I agree, foam may not be a good idea.

[canavanbob]

There is no "if", when electricity flows heat is generated.

[gregorycstitt]

You would hope Futaba and the ding dongs at Hobby services would address this problem and address it quickly. My plane was taxing back to the pits when I lost signal. I know it is a heat issue as well. If the reciever gets to hot, look out. Hopefully no one will get hurt by a lost plane. Thank God my plane was at idol when I lost signal. I tried talking, not accusing, Hobby Services today and they got irritated and basically blew me off. I wasn't sure they had read these blogs and thought the info might be of some use to them. I was wrong. I was told they can only do what Futaba tells them to do and what they are trained to do. Still trying to figure out why I purchased the "best" system.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by canavanbob
	There is no "if", when electricity flows heat is generated.

True, but the question is whether or not there is sufficient heat being generated that wrapping it in foam would cause an issue. Receivers have been foam wrapped for a very long time and it has never been an issue, despite the heat generated by the electrical current.

[reyn3545]

I just did a (very) unscientific test with the receiver. In my home, with the temperature at 71 degrees, I turned on the transmitter and receiver and started recording temps. The receiver is connected to 2 regulated batteries, but no power box. I didn't make any stick movements during the test, so it should be only exchanging packets with the transmitter. The receiver was positioned far enough above any other components in the system that they wouldn't transfer heat, and there was no forced air circulating in the body of the plane.

At the start of a 10 minute test, the receiver was at room temperature.. 71 degrees
After 3 minutes, it had risen to 76 degrees.
After 10 minutes (enough time to stabilize, I hope) the receiver was 82 degrees.

I suspect that this would certainly COULD increase significantly if the radio were wrapped heavily in foam.

I did notice that the warmest part of the case was near the antennas, which is what I would suspect... that's typically where the radio equipment (heat) is.

I've been in the electronics business for over 15 years, actually very active in the 2.4 GHz wireless industry. Its very typical for OEM's to develop "heat footprints" for these products based on the known heat output and airflow requirements for every component in the system... I suspect Futaba should be able to adjust the model with different airflow characteristics, and get some answers back to us pretty quickly.