Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[1bwana1]

I'm not sure how this issue with the Futaba 2.4 system will play out, but it seems that most of the discussion back and forth is taking place due to the long silence on Futaba's part. Personally, I hope that Futaba either comes out with a fix, or recommended installation guidelines soon. It is in all of our interests that the Futaba system be robust, and widely adopted. This was made clear today at my local club's annual Spring Fling fly-in today. The club is very serious about safety, and so was impounding all radios, including 2.4 systems. Due to a mix up in impound (AMA card being placed in the wrong slot by impound workers), two pilots with the same 72MHz channels were given their radios and allowed to fly at the same time. Of course when the second pilot turned on, the first plane was shot down. Luckily, the shot down pilot was flying a foamy, but the second pilot was about to take off with a 35% plane. No one was hurt, the foamy was easily repaired, so we were very lucky. Out of curiosity, I took a quick survey of the radios being checked in. About two thirds of the fliers were on 2.4. Of these all but two were on Spektrum/JR, 1 on Futaba, and 1 on XPS. I spoke to the two pilots involved in the frequency conflict. Both were on Futaba 72 MHz radios. Both said that they wanted to go 2.4, but wanted to use a Futaba radio, and because of things they were reading about the system, they were not comfortable that the Futaba system was ready yet.

My point is, that brand wars aside, it is in all of our interests that the Futaba 2.4 system gets the bugs worked out. We will all be safer in the long run when frequency conflicts are a thing of the past.

[Dsp Dave]

I think this heat issue is getting blown way out of proportion myself. I have the FASST system installed in over 25 airplanes and I have been flying the FASST system for almost 2 years now without one single glitch or problem. I have flown in all different climates and temperatures. One thing I never have done though is let any of my planes even before 2.4 bake out in the sun. My common practice has always been keep them under the tent or cover them up when I am not flying and pull them out to fly them and when I am done put them back under the tent or cover them up. I started doing this when I seen that dark Monokote colors could reach temps of 178 degrees on a 80 degree day and my thought was if the Monokote is getting up to 178 degrees what is it doing to the wood, glue and foam underneath it let alone the electronics. I spend alot of time on the airplanes that I do and spend even more time protecting my investments. I have tested the FASST system way beyond the limits that it should be expected to work and it is bulletproof!! I am not afraid to fly it and will continue to fly it because I know it works and I know I will never have a heat issue problem based on the way I install my radio equipment and take care of my airplanes.

[reyn3545]

This isn't a thread about FASST, its more specific to the 6014 receiver. If the overall tone of the FG members on this thread is accurate, this receiver seems to be more sensitive to temperature than competitive products, and more sensitive than other FASST products. We all love the technology, but we are looking for a sense of direction on one very important issue. To date, we've heard nothing. If there seems to be a overreaction, I'd suggest that its due more to that lack of response than anything else.

[MartinT]

I want to warn everyone that thinks this a 6014 problem that it is not. I tested a 606, 607 and 6014 under the same conditions and they all locked out within 30 seconds of each other. I was testing under EXTREME conditions, but they all did the same thing!

Yesterday I did some testing in my 35% Yak. I set it on the driveway to see how hot it would get. It was 95 degrees in Arizona, the airplane reached 122 degrees on the shady side and the receiver reached 145 degrees within a few minutes. I operated the receiver at these conditions for over an hour with no problems. In my previous extreme test where the receivers were tested in an 165 degrees environment, none of them lasted more than 12 minutes.

Being a +20 year Futaba pilot I don't want to change brands and I think that under most conditions the receivers are fine, but I think we are operating too close to the threshold of failure and need to be very conscious of the situation.

Providing cooling to the receiver is not as easy as many have stated. Just by cutting holes in your fuselage will not guarantee air flow. Even if you were lucky enough to cut the holes in the right spot and you achieved air flow that is no guarantee the receiver is benefiting from that air flow. Look at most giant scale Yak cowls, they are blocked to assure the air flow is where it needs to be. Most pilots are not experts in aerodynamics and thermal dynamics so I don't think that is the solution for most. I also don't think covering your airplane is a guarantee either, our airplanes have no thermal mass and therefore heat up very fast. I have seen a 35% Yak go from 80 degrees to 145 degrees in less than 5 minutes in the sun. Next time you fly, time long you are at the ready box getting ready to fly.

One last thing, if everyone thinks that they are save once they get into the air, please note that a 40% Comp ARF Extra was lost in Arizona a few weeks ago on it's second flight using a 6014. It was performing a rolling circle at an IMAA meet. Fortunately it was rolling away from the crowd, which brings me to the fact that we all need to be cautious as besides losing large investments, there are also lives at stake. It is true that air flow over the airplane during flight is assisting in keeping the airplane at ambient temperature however during flight there is so much more potentially adding to the problem such as receiver loading and exhaust radiant heat.

Another +20 year Futaba pilot has come up with an idea that may get all us Futaba pilots through this problem. We will be testing the solution hopefully next week and will let everyone know our test results as they come available.

I will testing again this weekend, it is suppose to be hotter and I want to operate the receiver in the 150 range. My goal is to find the cliff.

Please everyone be careful until someone figures this out.

One last comment, there was a post about the 6014 needing more power as the temperature goes up, well that is a common characteristic of electronic devices. In fact, many devices can reach a piont of thermal overrrun where the electronics are heating up therefore reguiring more power and therefore making more heat and eventually they cause themselves to reach their thermal maximum and they fail.

[Jurgen Heilig]

	Quote: Originally Posted by reyn3545
	This isn't a thread about FASST, its more specific to the 6014 receiver. ...

Actually the title may be misleading. It affects all FASST receivers. The smaller R617FS actually gets warmer than an R6014FS in the same ambient temperature and the R608FS might even be the most critical one of all.

Jürgen

[03fomoco]

I give up... My thoughts are we will hear nothing from Futaba...remember the 5014. A new receiver will come out with nothing published and everyone will quickly notice that it will not have heat issues. Measures can be taken to reduce the heat but "what if". This goes back to my car starts in the sun, the radio in my car works, my black IPOD works, my transmitter works strapped around my neck etc... Grin and bear it or move on is all that is left. You will assume the risk mitigation with this issue. Anyone not from the SW has no idea what the radiant heat from the sun is at 2500 feet. Sadly I feel sort of back in a comfort zone with my two 149dp reinstalled. I really like the Powerbox RSS idea. So best thing for my program is press on with piece of mind and see where we are at in a few months. I returned all my FASST receivers except the one that came with the TM-14 and it will remain in service in a heli which by design has great ambient cooling charastices.

Dave

[Flyfalcons]

When was the 12Z discontinued? Tower and Futaba's websites make no mention of that.

[reyn3545]

I just checked the Futaba website. The 12Z and 12Z 2.4 are still listed out there.

[3-d flyer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
	When was the 12Z discontinued? Tower and Futaba's websites make no mention of that.

last post FWIW.......



http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/f...continued.html

[grayuk]

It is still for sale in the UK.
http://www.ripmax.com/7index.asp?Pag...electedtab=060

[Mithrandir]

Another data point.

Today, 90 to 95 degrees outside. Right after a flight, my GP38% internally was exactly ambient. After sitting in the sun, it got to be 105 to 110 degrees internally and that typically took about 5 to 10 minutes to stabilize. (I drilled a .125" hole in the fuse side next to the Rx and stuck a Fluke Temp Meter probe thru that hole, thus measuring air temps the Rx is exposed to)

Very little wind, so no cooling going on when the plane was on the ground.
Not a lot of air getting inside the plane as it is sealed up pretty good.

The internal air is being cooled convectionally through the skins of the model
as it is in flight.

Solid connection in this environment.

[Flyfalcons]

I stopped paying attention after he mentioned asking why the 12Z was discontinued.

[madmax]

Fiddy, this is the last and and final warning - clean it up, and quick dude. Pat yourself on the back, you just got this thread locked.

All posts relating responding to that video and the crap you are trying to stir have been nuked. If you want to find a good way to piss me off, go after our friends, especially guys who have done countless good for the hobby like Mr. Don. Apologies to everyone else who got tangled up in this, and moreover the Hobbico / Futaba folks for the internet nonsense.

I'm throwing this thing on ice untill everyone chills out, or there is more information. Whichever comes first. This has gotten way out of hand.

Thanks -- MD