Problems!! 14MZ 2.4 R6014FS

[Georg Schamberger]

I think it's not okay to accuse futaba these problems.
type in "xps lockout" in google,and then type in fasst lockout...
But back to the theme now.
Greez
Georg

[Kiwi]

WWHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! George.

No on has even looked like accusing anyone of anything here and please guys lets not even include the XPS word in this thread unless its temperature related.

Somewhere I seen a post on another web site saying the little chip that does all the 2.4 Ghz processing runs at 1600 degrees F inside the receiver. Thats why or one of the reasons the 2.7 volt thingy is used.

I cant find it, I read it, I dont know if those numbers are a typo or not but if that is indeed correct then the Receiver sure as buggery will produce heat, no matter where it is.

If someone can find that information great, if its wrong then great as well.

[reyn3545]

OK... I'm in the 2.4 GHz busines, have been since the 90's...

If the receiver chip ran at 1600 degrees, you would melt the board its surface mounted to. I don't know whose chip they are using, and I'm not going to void the warranty on my receiver to find out, but suffice to say it probably runs at about 1/10 of that (at most).

Its not really about how much heat is produced, but about how much heat is managed. Remember about 5 years ago when Pentium chips found their way into notebook computers? The manufacturers were actually making water cooled "radiator" components that would sit on top of the processor. The metal exterior would transfer heat from the processor to the fluid (water) inside, the water would wick the heat about 6 inches away, where a fan blew over the metal pipe to cool the water inside. That cooled water cycled back into the processor area to begin the cycle again... all designed around the heat transfer properties of metal, water and air. (By the way, we saw THOUSANDS of processor chips fail because it was a crappy design, but the best that technology could afford at the time). Now, I'll admit, most of these notebooks weren't flying around our local fields, and the worst thing that could happen would be a little data loss. The industry eventually overcame the problem with technology, and the user community lived through a cycle of development.

We're all talking about the receiver chip or the power adapter, but it could be any of a number of components in the radio. There has to be a processor to manage all of this data, and I would suspect that's where you'll find the greatest heat source. Truth is, we'll never know... we don't need to. The folks that design this technology will work with their manufacaturing partners to identify and resolve the issue, assuming there is a real issue, and they'll get back to us, hopefully before anything happens that could be the fault of the conditions people are reporting here.

I haven't seen the issue first hand, but I certainly believe the folks that have seen it... so hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it quickly!

[dick hanson]

1600F? ludicrous- I wonder if these guys have any concept of real world , everyday temps of stuff we all use
melt point of solder we use 500f OR LESS
hot water 120 really hot water 140
inside a hot hot car 140+in sunlight windows up
Our radios - any of em ishould be shielded from direct sun- any of em - and the fuselage vented (aft preferrably to flow) air thru it - this is all we need .
the canopies will fallover and sag way under 200f --seen it a few times .

Proof - look at number of radios in use -if these heats were common -planes would fall out of the air -all over the place .
warm a piece of thick plastic to 140 f - now feel it -be careful !

[bgold]

Melting point of aluminum is 1200 F, 1600 would ignite wood as well as melt solder and plastic.

[dbrford]

Most silicon chips will start degrading at 350 C/660 F with failure at sustained temps of 350 C. As Dick stated other items on the board would start failing at lower temps. I am not implying that the this or any other receiver should should work in an airplane with fuse temps of 350 C, think it would combust at that point.

[BR289]

I will await Futaba's answer to what has been brought to them. Until then, I will continue to read this thread as it seems others are trying to duplicate the problem to the benefit of all of our knowledge.
I guess I am considered "Brand Loyal". I have always liked Futaba's stuff and like I have said before, I work part-time in a hobby shop ( rather large ) and have rarely seen any Futaba items returned as defective.
Heck, my best friend is a JR sponsored pilot and I still wont change!
Thanks again to all who providing good information.
Blair

[Mithrandir]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwi
	WWHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! George. No on has even looked like accusing anyone of anything here and please guys lets not even include the XPS word in this thread unless its temperature related. Somewhere I seen a post on another web site saying the little chip that does all the 2.4 Ghz processing runs at 1600 degrees F inside the receiver. Thats why or one of the reasons the 2.7 volt thingy is used. I cant find it, I read it, I dont know if those numbers are a typo or not but if that is indeed correct then the Receiver sure as buggery will produce heat, no matter where it is. If someone can find that information great, if its wrong then great as well.

I wonder if they were refferring to the Processor speed... 1600 Hz or Mhz or what ever???

[BR289]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mithrandir
	I wonder if they were refferring to the Processor speed... 1600 Hz or Mhz or what ever???

Thats possible and makes more sense...

[steph280]

The whole 1600 degree thing was a misunderstanding. Bill Baxter has cleared it up over at Futaba forum. It's actually 160 degrees. The degree symbol (elevated little o) somehow got changed to 0 when the spec was copy and pasted.

I am running 6014 and 617 in a couple helicopters and so far no problems. We have had 100+ temp this past weekend in So Cal and no lockouts (knock on wood). Then again the receiver in the heli is exposed to lots of airflow, and I never did check the temp of them. But I have to say, I never thought 160F is possible in a receiver, since we see that type of temperature only in 3000 watts electric motor/ESC stuff. If the internals of these receivers do reach 160F+, Futaba definitely need to do something...

[dick hanson]

here Stanley -you take this hammer and when I nod my head - you hit it

[bax]

	Quote: Originally Posted by steph280
	The whole 1600 degree thing was a misunderstanding. Bill Baxter has cleared it up over at Futaba forum. It's actually 160 degrees. The degree symbol (elevated little o) somehow got changed to 0 when the spec was copy and pasted. I am running 6014 and 617 in a couple helicopters and so far no problems. We have had 100+ temp this past weekend in So Cal and no lockouts (knock on wood). Then again the receiver in the heli is exposed to lots of airflow, and I never did check the temp of them. But I have to say, I never thought 160F is possible in a receiver, since we see that type of temperature only in 3000 watts electric motor/ESC stuff. If the internals of these receivers do reach 160F+, Futaba definitely need to do something...

The temps stated in the Support forum in RCU had nothing to do with receiver temps, but the operating temps of other types of onboard equipment. Here's the advisory:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7365443/tm.htm

We've seen a complaint that our thinking is to verify a problem before we do anything about it. One individual is upset with us because we cannot state that his equipment has this reported difficulty, that we don't have a fix, and cannot apply it to his equipment. What is expected? How can something be solved unless it's verified? Internet complaints/posts are not concrete, verifiable information. Futaba must be able to duplicate a difficulty before they can work on a solution.

The first posting about possible system cutouts was last Friday, and that individual's conclusion about possible causes was posted Saturday, when we're not in the office. We have been in contact with Futaba about this from the first time the post was seen...yesterday when we came in to work. People are now upset that it hasn't been solved yet, let alone what the exact problem happens to be. There are many questions to ask and tests to perform before any concrete conclusions can be drawn. Once that happens, we go from there.

Please rest assured that we are aware of what some people are seeing, and have transmitted all known information to the proper people at Futaba, Japan. The actual person who designed the Futaba R6014FS receiver is also in the loop. This is not something that's being 'swept under the rug'. The concerns are being taken very seriously.

[Simpleton]

Maybe he thought it wouldn't be too much trouble to grab a heatgun, and IR thermometer, and a 6014 and see what you guys came up with.

[lazun]

	Quote: Originally Posted by bax
	Bill Baxter

Question.

What if your setup is simple. All Futaba servos, extentions, switches, Duralite Batt's and regulators to 6.0 volts. No other fancy stuff. The advisory does not seem to fit or am I looking at it wrong?

John

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by lazun
	Question. What if your setup is simple. All Futaba servos, extentions, switches, Duralite Batt's and regulators to 6.0 volts. No other fancy stuff. The advisory does not seem to fit or am I looking at it wrong? John

The only advisory out on the 6014 right now deals with using non-Futaba equipment with that RX. Some after market servos have not worked well with the lower voltage that the 6014 uses internally. It has nothing to do with the current situation.

When Futaba designed the 6014 they used a newer generation of IC chip that operates at 2.7 volts versus 3.0 volts. They tested to make sure it worked with all existing Futaba equipment, which it does (1 exception is the 9102 servo I think). But it does have issues with some Hitec stuff and so on.

And what else do people want in light of Bill Baxter's post above?? I think it about covers it, but apparently some are not satisfied with anything less than an instantaneous response. Also keep in mind that when Bill and his team first saw this at say 9 am CDT Monday that it was 11 PM Monday night in Japan. So it really was not until the near end of our business day on Monday that anybody in Japan could even start looking at the issue.