Comp arf Superextra crash

[porcupineace]

a fair deal. least the guy called you back to make an arrangement for a discount.good for your friend,good for them.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Doc. insane
	Let's get back to the facts shall we The guy used top of the notch brand new gear, double synth receivers, lipo's, all you want, EXCEPT some heavy duty servo's for the ailerons. So you may blame him for using a bit too sloppy servo's. Anyway, My friend just got back a very friendly email from Andreas from comp arf. He explained what could have hapened, having watched the pictures and read the facts. He doesn't agree it is a production error, because it only happened on the 10th flight and the planes get a very good inspection before their are shipped. He told us the aileron failure was caused by a short but serious flutter and he adviced us to use at least JR8611's or hitec equivalents. Anyway, they are prepared to make a new superextra with a discount, which is fair enough imo! And this time I'll make sure my friend put's at least 2, maybe 3 if possible, JR8611's or HS5995Tg's in those wings. Conclusion: - Always use the heaviest servo's available in giant scale airplanes. - Comp arf were very helpful!

[porcupineace]

	Quote: Originally Posted by porcupineace
	a fair deal. least the guy called you back to make an arrangement for a discount.good for your friend,good for them.

these planes are way too expensive to cheap out on servos...

[pepatrick]

The super extra is an awesome flying plane...but it definately needs the high torque servos. I would even consider 8711s since your only putting 2 servos in the inboard position. Now...Doc...You need to be flying...I understand you got out of the hobby for a while. You have incredible skills...Id really like to see some more of your flying videos...great stuff.

[Temptation]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jonkoppisch
	Looks like their only designed for 2 servos per aileron.. "This plate is designed to accept a pair of JR8511/8611 servos" The manual says that 8411's are fine for pattern flying..

Three servos can be installed. Further towards the wing tip there is another servo tray that holds one servo. To gain access to it, the double servo tray needs to be removed, and a very long allen or screw driver is used to install the screws.

[jonkoppisch]

Sounds good.. The manual doesn't mention anything about it. I'll have to check my wing..

[Doc. insane]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pepatrick
	The super extra is an awesome flying plane...but it definately needs the high torque servos. I would even consider 8711s since your only putting 2 servos in the inboard position. Now...Doc...You need to be flying...I understand you got out of the hobby for a while. You have incredible skills...Id really like to see some more of your flying videos...great stuff.

Thanks ,
I'd love to start flying again, but I don't have the $$$ and time yet. Only a few more years of studying to go and then I should be flying giant scale again. Meanwhile I fly the sim or the shocky from time to time.

greets

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by cyco
	with the weight and the surfaces, you need 3 5955tgs. thats the setup a friend is flying in his SX for at least over a year know -working well 2 of the hitecs isnt enough for this surface on this plane. -only in lighter planes. Regards,Chris

Not true. The comps are a little lighter than most planes their size and 2 5955s (not 5945s) are plenty. At 6 volts that's well over 600 oz of torque. If 600 oz isn't enough, I don't know what is.3 would be good insurance and a near bulletproof set up, but 2 of them are plenty. If you don't trust it, use JR 8711s. 2 of those gets you 800+ ozs

[pepatrick]

Having owned several Compys...2.6 Extra, 2 2.6 Yaks and 3.0 Yak...I dissagree that they are any lighter than comparable planes..And even if they were...the wing aileron surfaces are larger than most plane and I dont know that I would trust 2 5955s on the ailerons on a Super Extra. 3 would be better...but I would really like to see an inboard outboard config on the Super Extra. 2 8711s would work great..especially if JR gets off their butt and uses titanium gears.

[crhammond]

I have a 3W Extra 330 @ 38lbs with 2x5955 @ 6v and it is enough (with a short arm seup.) I had a close call the other day where the 8-32 bolt sheared off the outboard aileron in flight (flush with the surface where all the stress is. I was flying Intermediate and didn't even notice until I landed and was cleaning/inspecting the plane. Bad bolts - I replaced them all. I didn't build the plane but the original owner used the standard silver bolts. They were all soft. If there had been ganged servos or one servo - maybe lights out!

The week before that the hard point for the inboard aileron control horn on my Compy 2.6m 260 unglued. There was no external evidence but I noticed some funkyness in flight and landed ASAP. The horn was only still glued to the outer skin (good thing it was Hysol.) I cut away a small section around the horn and re-glued the hard point with Hysol (had to force it in there.)

Yes my servos are all correctly matched with no binding in the travel - just a coincidence I had the failures close together. I'm flying a LOT more snaps now in Intermediate.

Stuff happens. 2 (or 3) really good servos spread out on the wing is good insurance that I have experienced twice this month... it makes think twice about using 3 on each wing and maybe 2 on the elev on my 40%.

On the 5955 I use short 1" arms and 1.5" on the control horn to maximize the servo leverage. If I were doing 3D with long arms I would use 9156 or 8711's.

5645 - bad centering, weak gear and generally high failure rate has been my experience.

[shogunmst]

Have to Disagree!! I have a 40% Carden Edge built in 2002 with (2) 5645 servoes on each aileron and it flies GREAT!! No flutter or signes of strain even with the throttle wide open. This plane will IMAC and 3D with ease. All origianl gear in plane since it was built in 2002!!!

[Andy Thomas]

It looks like the old doc insane sight is down, for those that dont know he put together a few airplanes for afpd including what I consider the best 3d trainer I have ever used. If he gives me permission I will post the file for all.

[eagle1]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Mithrandir
	I have 225 flights using two FUTABA S9152 servos in mine... and the ARF comes with appropriate aileron servo trays. Two S9156's would be a little better choice though.

thats what i am usung in my 3m Extra 260(9156's)

[JagerBomb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by shogunmst
	Have to Disagree!! I have a 40% Carden Edge built in 2002 with (2) 5645 servoes on each aileron and it flies GREAT!! No flutter or signes of strain even with the throttle wide open. This plane will IMAC and 3D with ease. All origianl gear in plane since it was built in 2002!!!

Shogunmst,

You only think it flys great. If you were to install quality strong servos you wouldn't believe the difference. The only reason your plane has survived to this point is a much smaller aileron in comparison to the compy and most probably a very good linkage ratio. Original gear since 2002? I don't know how many flights that amounts to, but that is a longtime on marginal gear. Sounds like a great time for an upgrade!

Mark

[notorious_benny]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pepatrick
	Having owned several Compys...2.6 Extra, 2 2.6 Yaks and 3.0 Yak...I dissagree that they are any lighter than comparable planes..And even if they were...the wing aileron surfaces are larger than most plane and I dont know that I would trust 2 5955s on the ailerons on a Super Extra. 3 would be better...but I would really like to see an inboard outboard config on the Super Extra. 2 8711s would work great..especially if JR gets off their butt and uses titanium gears.

Have a 3.1 Super extra with somewhere in the vicinity of 350 flights, 2 x5955's on each aileron in the inboard position. Big throws

No problems whatsoever.

Have 3 x5955's on the rudder and that isnt really enough for long high speed knife edge circles ect. They lose holding torque after several seconds on knife edge.

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by notorious_benny
	Have a 3.1 Super extra with somewhere in the vicinity of 350 flights, 2 x5955's on each aileron in the inboard position. Big throws No problems whatsoever. Have 3 x5955's on the rudder and that isnt really enough for long high speed knife edge circles ect. They lose holding torque after several seconds on knife edge.

That's what I have whitnessed.The one owned by a local is 35 lbs. Pretty light for it's size and 2 5955 per aileron throw it around pretty good. As for the gent that dissagreed,dissagree if you like. Everyone has their opinion and I respect that. I was going by what I've seen, they are a LITTLE lighter than the average plane that size, unless you remove every ounce possible during your kit build to get it around 35lbs.I just don't think you need 3 servos. 600 oz of torque seems to be plenty. I'm not insiting I'm right and you're dumb. lol. Like I said before, 3 would be safer or added security, but not necessary. The ailerons on it aren't any bigger than my 260's which have 2 5955s,but as to the issue at hand, with today's hardcore 3D, 2 5945s just simply aren't enough. Maybe if the were direct drive, but I wouldn't use them on anything bigger than a 50cc size plane. Glad to hear your friend at least got a discount on his replacement. That's pretty generous of them to do that. Most companies would tell you to get bent if they found out you were running servos that weren't up to their minimun reccomendations. Hope his new one will wash the bad taste out.