Restoring a GP Patty Wagstaff's Extra 300S

[sensei]

	Quote: Originally Posted by almmendes
	This model is a 78" wingspan and weight varies from 14-16lb in the spec book but think more close to 16lb.

If the weight is going to be around 16 lbs. with this size platform then you really need to put the entire airframe on an aggressive diet because there is no amount of HP or thrust that you can add that will bring back an acceptable wing loading in order to fly, land or 3D like it should, and I believe after all your hard work; you will be disappointed. IMO

Bob

[almmendes]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sensei
	If the weight is going to be around 16 lbs. with this size platform then you really need to put the entire airframe on an aggressive diet because there is no amount of HP or thrust that you can add that will bring back an acceptable wing loading in order to fly, land or 3D like it should, and I believe after all your hard work; you will be disappointed. IMO Bob

Come one Bob... "no amount of HP or thrust that you can add that will bring back an acceptable wing loading in order to fly, land or 3D like it should" you don't mean this. I want to get a DL-50 here and maybe you are correct with this engine but if I decide to go 60cc or even bigger I can always find the HP needed or wanted to fly the way a specific person prefers how to fly.

I cannot make an assumption on the total weight because I don't yet have the engine, batteries, fuel tank... some parts that I'm still thinking about and asking for help. I hope I can make this bird fly as light as I can....

[IMACmike]

helium tanks in the wings might help...

[sensei]

	Quote: Originally Posted by almmendes
	Come one Bob... "no amount of HP or thrust that you can add that will bring back an acceptable wing loading in order to fly, land or 3D like it should" you don't mean this. I want to get a DL-50 here and maybe you are correct with this engine but if I decide to go 60cc or even bigger I can always find the HP needed or wanted to fly the way a specific person prefers how to fly. I cannot make an assumption on the total weight because I don't yet have the engine, batteries, fuel tank... some parts that I'm still thinking about and asking for help. I hope I can make this bird fly as light as I can....

All I am saying is HP is not an antidote for wing loading, especially on smaller airframes, the smaller you go the more criticle weight become in all aspects of flight, higher wing loading causes things like eccelerated tip stalls, uncontrollable wing rock in high alpha mode, and low speed tip stalls while trying slow down or land.

I don't think anyone really prefers to fly aircraft with these type traits. I do think many do not really understand just how much weight is effecting how their aircraft performs.

It's like this, take and indoor foamy that weighs 6.5 to 7 ozs. and fly it around
for a while,. Now, add two or three ozs. on the C/G and see how the added wing loading effects it's flight.....

Bob

[Bob S]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sensei
	If the weight is going to be around 16 lbs. with this size platform then you really need to put the entire airframe on an aggressive diet because there is no amount of HP or thrust that you can add that will bring back an acceptable wing loading in order to fly, land or 3D like it should, and I believe after all your hard work; you will be disappointed. IMO Bob

These are tough birds to get right and Bob is right; too big for a glow and too small for a 50cc gasser. No amount of HP will make a heavy wing loading fly better. Make this as light as possible. That motor box is a good place to start. Skip anything that is not required to make it fly (like wheel pants for example) Every ounce you can save it worth saving on that plane. Especially at your altitude you need this closer to 14 than 16.

[aviti]

Life is too short to fly overweight aerobats. Not much you can do with the 70 something inch 1/4 planes as far as weight. Like others have said, get as much weight out as possible. There's a lot of unecessary wood in that plane. Start cutting and shoot for 14 lbs as it won't be much fun at 16 lbs. I'd also consider glow vs gas. More of a pain I know, but if you want a nice flyer. Saito 220 would probably pull it well.

[Sergio Costa]

boas maquinas
quanto ao capô o meu comsselho é de nao reparar os furos
um bom autocolante resolve o problema
e a abertura em baixo é ideal para o aquecimento nao subir

[kregan]

You could also look into the ZDZ FAI gas engine.

[almmendes]

	Quote: Originally Posted by kregan
	You could also look into the ZDZ FAI gas engine.

I cannot fond any info about that engine. Can you post a link?

Thanks

[Sergio Costa]

aqui vai colega algumas informaçoes desse motor !

http://www.topmodel.fr/product_detail.php?id=9498

é da marca do meu que tenho no meu YAK 54 30% e está fixe

mas o DL é mais barato e trabalha igual

[Craven]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Sergio Costa
	boas maquinas quanto ao capô o meu comsselho é de nao reparar os furos um bom autocolante resolve o problema e a abertura em baixo é ideal para o aquecimento nao subir

SAY WHAT???????

[almmendes]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Sergio Costa
	boas maquinas quanto ao capô o meu comsselho é de nao reparar os furos um bom autocolante resolve o problema e a abertura em baixo é ideal para o aquecimento nao subir

As for the cowling, my advice is not repair the holes at all. A good sticker will solve the problem, and the cowling bottom opening it's ideal so the temperature will not up.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Sergio Costa
	aqui vai colega algumas informaçoes desse motor ! http://www.topmodel.fr/product_detail.php?id=9498 é da marca do meu que tenho no meu YAK 54 30% e está fixe mas o DL é mais barato e trabalha igual

Partner, here you can find some info about that engine... it's the same brand as mine on my Yak 54 30% and it works fine however the DL is cheaper and will perform the same.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Craven
	SAY WHAT???????

Craven, sorry about that but as myself this friend of mine (Sergio Costa) is Portuguese and although he does not write or talk english he can read it and therefore he gave me some tips. I'll try to translate my best...

[zoomer260]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Bob S
	These are tough birds to get right and Bob is right; too big for a glow and too small for a 50cc gasser. No amount of HP will make a heavy wing loading fly better. Make this as light as possible. That motor box is a good place to start. Skip anything that is not required to make it fly (like wheel pants for example) Every ounce you can save it worth saving on that plane. Especially at your altitude you need this closer to 14 than 16.

Has the whole RC world gone completely "3 D" in their opinion of wing loading ? Not trying to be a wise a$$ just curious. I've been out of it a while and I thought all these 18lb. "50cc" planes were more of a 60cc maybe even 70cc size but I'm a little confused now.

[Super08]

I guess I'm old school too. My "Patty" weighs in at 17lbs even with no added weight to balance. DL 50 for power. Goes like a raped ape with unlimited vertical without using anything close to full power. Very easy plane to fly and floats in to land like a pussycat.

[sensei]

	Quote: Originally Posted by zoomer260
	Has the whole RC world gone completely "3 D" in their opinion of wing loading ? Not trying to be a wise a$$ just curious. I've been out of it a while and I thought all these 18lb. "50cc" planes were more of a 60cc maybe even 70cc size but I'm a little confused now.

This is a 78" wingspan airplane with only 1157 sq. inches. That puts it really in the glow .160-.220 size. With a strict diet on this airplane it could weigh in at around 11 or even 12 lbs. on glow; Believe it or not.

50cc size airplanes typically have around a 85"-87" wingspan weighing around 16 to 18 lbs. A few years back I built a 96" span Laser 200 outfitted with a DA 50cc and an all up weight of 15.5 lbs. with nearly 1700 sq. in. of wing area. It was really a good performing airplane. (IMO)

Bob