Rocky Mountain Big Bird event

[mkharte]

This individual (Hammbone), has been invited several times to participate on the committee from the beginning of the planning cycle. He was even invited to turn this into a 3D event by the club president if he wanted to step up and volunteer. This he chose not to do.
After planning began, he started this hate campaign and has been invited several times to step up and participate in the planning and running of the event to help show how all pilots and flying types could be integrated and participate in the event. Again he has chosen not to do so.
If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
The only 3D flying which has been restricted at this event is hovers and harriers over the runway. If Jim had chosen to participate then he would have been aware of this.
If he is so ashamed and embarrassed by the club and the event committee then he could have chosen to participate instead of just spending his time polluting this site with his hate and discontent.
I would encourage any pilot wanting to have a great day out of flying and fellowship with other pilots come and check it out for yourself instead of taking the word of one disgruntled individual who does no more than complain and post hate mail.
Please feel free to contact me with questions.

Happy Flying,

Mike

[TimDavie]

Mkharte,
Your flyer states that everyone should fly a race-track pattern when more than 1 plane is in the air. This is in contrast to your above statement about no 3D over the runway.

This arguement comes up too many times and everyone wants their way or no way at all. When I was there several years ago, you used to segment the times.
"Locking out" all 3d unless they are the "only one" in the air is locking out the up and coming of model aviation. Did you ever have a camaro before you settled into a cadillac? This is wishful thinking on my part, but you get the idea.

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MJKflying
	The only 3D limited maneuvers are Hovering and Harriers Regards, Mark

You told me that hovers and harriers are not allowed, period. What does it mean when you say these maneuvers are limited? Don't you mean they are completely restricted, or banned?
That's what you told me. Are you guys changing your policy now that you see how many pilots will not come when 3D is banned?

Jim

[AllBread]

	Quote: Originally Posted by mkharte
	I would encourage any pilot wanting to have a great day out of flying and fellowship with other pilots come and check it out for yourself instead of taking the word of one disgruntled individual who does no more than complain and post hate mail.

Fine, I'll go check it out.

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by mkharte
	This individual (Hammbone), has been invited several times to participate on the committee from the beginning of the planning cycle. He was even invited to turn this into a 3D event by the club president if he wanted to step up and volunteer. This he chose not to do. After planning began, he started this hate campaign and has been invited several times to step up and participate in the planning and running of the event to help show how all pilots and flying types could be integrated and participate in the event. Again he has chosen not to do so. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. The only 3D flying which has been restricted at this event is hovers and harriers over the runway. If Jim had chosen to participate then he would have been aware of this. If he is so ashamed and embarrassed by the club and the event committee then he could have chosen to participate instead of just spending his time polluting this site with his hate and discontent. I would encourage any pilot wanting to have a great day out of flying and fellowship with other pilots come and check it out for yourself instead of taking the word of one disgruntled individual who does no more than complain and post hate mail. Please feel free to contact me with questions. Happy Flying, Mike

It is true that I had the opportunity to take over this event and declined to do so. One reason I declined is because of the bad name this event has earned for itself by restricting freestyle type flying over the years. This is reflected in this thread by flyers that have been to the event in years past and experienced this for themselves. If I do head up a 3D event in Co, it will be from a fresh start. I'm not going to take over an event that already has earned such a bad reputation. The other reasons I declined the offer are personal.

It is a complete lie that I was invited to participate in this committee in any way.
I have sent e-mails back and forth asking why 3D is restricted when there is no need to restrict it. I get lame replies back with stupid responses like "the spectators don't like to watch 3D" and "3D is not safe" and "most pilots don't want 3D allowed at the event". All these things just show how out of touch these guys are.

You guys have every right to have a fly-in and not allow 3D flying. I hope you have fun. I am not going to sit by and watch 3D flyers waste their time and their gas money to come to the event though. If you are banning 3D flying, let everyone know that you are.

You said above that "The only 3D flying which has been restricted at this event is hovers and harriers over the runway". Are you saying that hovers and harriers are allowed if they are not over the runway? Because every other communication from the club, communications from the event director, and your pilot registration form itself says that no 3D maneuvers are allowed. Are you changing your policy, or are you just trying to trick more 3D pilots into coming to the event so you can collect their money?

Jim

[MJKflying]

Traffic flow is the primary concern during the event. Hover and Harrier are stationary [or nearly so] and represent obstacles to others flying through. The racetrack pattern is the term used with the intention of keeping traffic moving in the same direction. Performing turnaround manuevers such as humpty bumps, split S, 1/2 cuban eights, hammerheads, blenders, etc... at the end of the racetrack is great assuming the pilot does not end up flying against traffic.

The information flyer doesn't address when no/little traffic is present, or if multple pilots agree to add hover/harrier. As a point of clarification, we've asked the Air Boss to support pilot requests.

Mark

[Hammbone]

You still have not stated definitively if hovers or harriers are allowed if they are not over the runway.
Quit acting like a politician, and state what the policy is.

Jim

[Hammbone]

Since these guys don't even seem capable of clearly stating what their rules are, I will state it again just so everyone knows and can make up their own mind as to whether or not they want to attend this event.

They have banned 3D flying from this event, specifically they are banning hovering and harriers. There was some talk of possibly allowing a pilot to fly 3D if no one else was flying at the same time. It sounds like they have decided now, to allow a pilot (or pilots) to fly 3D if no one else is flying at the same time, if they get permission from the airboss to do so. Otherwise, 3D flying is NOT going to be allowed.
They are also pretty strict about flying in the "racetrack" pattern. If you fly against the traffic flow in the racetrack pattern, you are going to get talked to. Do it several times and I believe your flying priviledges will be revoked.
If these rules are acceptable to you, please do attend the event and I hope you have fun.
If this doesn't sound like your kind of thing, you don't have to waste your time or your gas money now.

If you guys on the committee have changed your rules, please let us all know.

Jim

[crazyjoe]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MJKflying
	Traffic flow is the primary concern during the event. Hover and Harrier are stationary [or nearly so] and represent obstacles to others flying through. The racetrack pattern is the term used with the intention of keeping traffic moving in the same direction. Performing turnaround manuevers such as humpty bumps, split S, 1/2 cuban eights, hammerheads, blenders, etc... at the end of the racetrack is great assuming the pilot does not end up flying against traffic. The information flyer doesn't address when no/little traffic is present, or if multple pilots agree to add hover/harrier. As a point of clarification, we've asked the Air Boss to support pilot requests. Mark

I think flyers should be judged by how well they fly. If a pilot is a qualified DOD flyer then should he not be able to hover and or harrier down on the deck leaving plenty of air space at 100 feet for circle flyers. One guy wrote in he didn't like 3D pilots because were down on the runway and its distracting and hard to land. If someone hovering down on the deck keeps you from safely flying your plane than you are not qualified to fly in a crowd and should remain a spectator. When you are ready to land a simple announcement will allow the 3d pilot to fly clear of the runway. At our Field beginner pilots fly around all the time at 2oo ft while i 3d between 10 and 40 ft we never come within 100 ft of one another. The featured pilot and the aroworks boys are not the only guys that are skilled enough to 3d down on the deck over the runway. Let the guys that are qualified to 3d down low put on a show that the crowd want to see. I have been to the show in the past and 99% of the flyers are flying well above 100ft leaving plenty of room under them for qualified 3d pilots. qualified 3d pilots down on the deck up close over the runway is what people want to see. Look up any video of a flying giants event you will see down low in your face flying and their events get bigger and bigger every year.

[crazyjoe]

This is what spectators as well as most event pilots want to see.

http://www.flyinggiants.com/gallery/...hp?photo=48021

[gstjohn]

CrazyJoe,
a big thank you for your logical thinking, I have suggested this before and its like talking to a bunch of old trees. I for one was part of the noon time demo flight team with my 3d comp-arf and my turbine heli, this was run by the past contest director I believe that his handle on flying giants is mkharte. his personal attack to hammbone is typical of Mike Harrington. I know this because he has personally attacked my family, me included. if this handle is not Mike Harrington then my apologies. I was asked again this year to be apart of this airshow team for big bird I kindly declined the offer knowing of the drama that comes with this event.
Unfortunately Love-Air R/C who runs this event has gotten greedy with past events and has turned what used to be a really big r/c event for colorado into nothing more than a three ring circus. they have focused so much on the bottom line of how much they make or lose that they have lost sight that most spectators want to see flying that will take their breath away but still be safe. I know that I for one will not participate in the event this year.
R/C flying is supposed to be a fun hobby not have a bunch of politics surrounding it.
As mkharte has stated before "if your not a part of the solution then your part of the problem" and he isolated hammbone as the problem, well I stand with hammbone on this one, so make me part of the problem as well.

[superdave1963]

This Issue will never go away....I have flown at many events with circle flying and 3D....Never an issue........as with all fly ins communication is key......With pattern IMAC 3D or sport flying........my..2 cents..OH most people who do not like 3D, CANT

[RVBlack]

This is getting interesting . What about helicopters ? They hover

[Bobalew]

Hammbone
If you decide to CD a good ol fashion huckfest sometime, I'll be there.

[4Play]

gstjohn, hammbone, & crazyjoe well put