Rocky Mountain Big Bird event

[revolution31]

	Quote: Originally Posted by crazyjoe
	I think flyers should be judged by how well they fly. If a pilot is a qualified DOD flyer then should he not be able to hover and or harrier down on the deck leaving plenty of air space at 100 feet for circle flyers. One guy wrote in he didn't like 3D pilots because were down on the runway and its distracting and hard to land. If someone hovering down on the deck keeps you from safely flying your plane than you are not qualified to fly in a crowd and should remain a spectator. When you are ready to land a simple announcement will allow the 3d pilot to fly clear of the runway. At our Field beginner pilots fly around all the time at 2oo ft while i 3d between 10 and 40 ft we never come within 100 ft of one another. The featured pilot and the aroworks boys are not the only guys that are skilled enough to 3d down on the deck over the runway. Let the guys that are qualified to 3d down low put on a show that the crowd want to see. I have been to the show in the past and 99% of the flyers are flying well above 100ft leaving plenty of room under them for qualified 3d pilots. qualified 3d pilots down on the deck up close over the runway is what people want to see. Look up any video of a flying giants event you will see down low in your face flying and their events get bigger and bigger every year.

	Quote: Originally Posted by crazyjoe
	This is what spectators as well as most event pilots want to see. http://www.flyinggiants.com/gallery/...hp?photo=48021

	Quote: Originally Posted by gstjohn
	CrazyJoe, a big thank you for your logical thinking, I have suggested this before and its like talking to a bunch of old trees. I for one was part of the noon time demo flight team with my 3d comp-arf and my turbine heli, this was run by the past contest director I believe that his handle on flying giants is mkharte. his personal attack to hammbone is typical of Mike Harrington. I know this because he has personally attacked my family, me included. if this handle is not Mike Harrington then my apologies. I was asked again this year to be apart of this airshow team for big bird I kindly declined the offer knowing of the drama that comes with this event. Unfortunately Love-Air R/C who runs this event has gotten greedy with past events and has turned what used to be a really big r/c event for colorado into nothing more than a three ring circus. they have focused so much on the bottom line of how much they make or lose that they have lost sight that most spectators want to see flying that will take their breath away but still be safe. I know that I for one will not participate in the event this year. R/C flying is supposed to be a fun hobby not have a bunch of politics surrounding it. As mkharte has stated before "if your not a part of the solution then your part of the problem" and he isolated hammbone as the problem, well I stand with hammbone on this one, so make me part of the problem as well.

+1

From a spectator standpoint, I will not be attending BigBirdthis year if there is no 3D flying to watch. Basically, in my opinion, you are turning Big Bird into Warbirds Over The Rockies with different planes. While I enjoyed last years Warbirds show, I go to Big Bird to watch 3D specifically.

Oh, and of the many crashes I have seen at Big Bird over the years, I have only witnessed 2 that have been with 3D planes, and both of those crashes affected one and only one plane.

Just my two cents.

[crazyjoe]

I have seen 3D planes go in while flying on the deck it comes with the territory. But while observing a middle of runway out rule all the wrecks i have seen have gone in out away from the runway. On the other hand I have seen several planes come through the pits all flown buy circle flyer's with one thumb. I have flown at different Fields from Colorado to Arizona and unfortunately their are a lot of club members who seem to associate 3d flying and dangerous flying as one and the same. One thing I have also wondered is why are the flight stations at most fields set up so far away from each other making it difficult for pilots to communicate with each other. At my field when I'm flying with someone else especially a beginner I like to stand right next to him so I can communicate with him.

[cagmo]

CrazyJoe- you are not crazy. Get a new handle my man. Ok...my turn....here we go.

There is a 'monument' in the ground in the pits area at this field from a circle flyer losing control. By the way of contrast... recently a 40%er went in while 3ding after it lost its motor. It went straight down because it had no forward speed (ask me how I know). It didn't end up any where near the pits even though it was essentially 3ding over the runway at the time.

Personally, I get enough restrictions and politics at work. What happened to this being FUN. Every weekend all types of flying styles fly together with no issues. Somehow, an event changes that. Flying is flying.

I really don't get the debate. Why restrict things? Fly and be responsible. Circle flyers have a right to fly. So doesn't 3d or warbirds or helis, etc. No one has more right than another. Let it be. That's why the huckfests across the country are so darn popular. In my opinion yellow airplanes are hard to see in the sky. Let's restrict those too. Come on people...get real. Let's make it fun and cut the bureaucratic crap (I've got the government for that and look at the fine job it does :-)

Peace
-Cagmo

[Bird of Paradise]

Greg:

I'm Bird of Paradise. BTW, I did not attack your family but did seek to defuse a dispute in which you were not involved. As you well know, this was resolved to the satisfaction of all parties and is closed.

Mike

	Quote: Originally Posted by gstjohn
	CrazyJoe, a big thank you for your logical thinking, I have suggested this before and its like talking to a bunch of old trees. I for one was part of the noon time demo flight team with my 3d comp-arf and my turbine heli, this was run by the past contest director I believe that his handle on flying giants is mkharte. his personal attack to hammbone is typical of Mike Harrington. I know this because he has personally attacked my family, me included. if this handle is not Mike Harrington then my apologies. I was asked again this year to be apart of this airshow team for big bird I kindly declined the offer knowing of the drama that comes with this event. Unfortunately Love-Air R/C who runs this event has gotten greedy with past events and has turned what used to be a really big r/c event for colorado into nothing more than a three ring circus. they have focused so much on the bottom line of how much they make or lose that they have lost sight that most spectators want to see flying that will take their breath away but still be safe. I know that I for one will not participate in the event this year. R/C flying is supposed to be a fun hobby not have a bunch of politics surrounding it. As mkharte has stated before "if your not a part of the solution then your part of the problem" and he isolated hammbone as the problem, well I stand with hammbone on this one, so make me part of the problem as well.

[50%plane]

WOW! What an issue. It seems like there's only one way to solve this:

Hammbone and the Rocky Mountain....whatever staff need to throw down the gauntlet during a noon time demo. Crowd picks the winner.

Who do I send my consulting fee?

[BOSSIER_ROB]

Bring it down to Louisiana. We love 3D! Aug 30-31, Shreveport, it's on like a fat kid on a candy bar! It's a shame when an event says you cant fly the style you enjoy, but turn loose 5 or 10 joffs, who have no business flying large models(or any for that matter), in front of a large crowd. Most folks who aren't confident in their 3D skills won't dare attempt it in front of that many people. It hurts our pride to crash with that many witnesses. lol. Seriously, I would never attempt anything with a crowd, or a pilot at a station nearby, that I wasn't safe with. If I dare to "try something new", it would be away from the runway and I would hit the kill switch if it ever pointed that way and was in danger of hurting someone. I would say, the greater majority of 3D pilots are better suited for airshows with spectators. We practice flying in every unusual attitude there is, and practice to be our best at it. I know some people have a harder time perfecting these but still are better skilled and well more in controll of the average "circle" pilot who is doing outstanding just to land, much less in the vecinity of the runway.It's a shame that this happened to you guys, and even more a shame that these directors are now crawfishin' on their rules trying to get pilots to change their minds and show up. They way I see it, if you don't want great guys/pilots like us to show up and fly the way we do, we certainly don't want to fight our way in. Piss on that, we'll go where we're welcome and enjoy the company of cool people. I mean, if I wanted to listen to an *********, I'd fart!

[crazyjoe]

The latest is no you can do 3D just no harriers or hovering. OK

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by RVBlack
	This is getting interesting . What about helicopters ? They hover

This is actually a very interesting question, since the event director has a helicopter that he usually flies in this event. Helicopters hover, don't they?

Here are the event directors words from a previous post on this thread:
"Traffic flow is the primary concern during the event. Hover and Harrier are stationary [or nearly so] and represent obstacles to others flying through."

Is a helicopter that is hovering or flying slow not an "obstacle to others flying through"? It seems to me that if we take his reasoning for banning 3D, it actually applies more so to helicopters, yet as far as I know, helicopters are not banned from the event. I wonder why this is?

Let me state that I don't think helicopters should be banned from the event, I don't think anything should be banned from the event. It just seems like he would want helicopters banned from the event if we follow his reasoning.

Jim

[JEFFRO503]

I posted this comment on RCU under this thread , it was to long to re-type......


"If hovering and harrier's are out of the question......then so is about 90% of all the other 3d aerobatic type moves. this would go without saying doing any kind of harrier rolls would be unacceptable? depending on how you perform the rolling , that "IS" basically about 75% of 3D flying. if you watch anyone who is considerd a good 3D pilot , more than 1/2 of their flight is rolling in some way or another , and to make it really fun for the pilot , other pilots and spectators is to bring em' down low and show your stuff. I'm sorry , but i don't buy the quote about " The spectors don't enjoy 3D flight"......sheeeesh....i've never seen a spectator yet that didn't enjoy watching a good 3D pilot show his stuff.


I think Jim is correct in standing his ground 100% on this. And I also think he has every right to warn other pilots about not being able to fly they way they might "want" to fly. And for a Field event director..TO NOT SAY this up front to all the pilots before they make the worthless trip out there......well..........i think that's wrong. If this event has gotten a bad name because of things like this......then i completely understand why.

To the event Director : Dude.....lighten up! If you haven't gotten the full picture yet , 3D type flying is the what the spectators come to see. I'm sorry , but unless your heavily involved in IMAC , watching it will put you to sleep within the first 15 minutes. You are short changing your pilots buy not letting them fly the way they want to , and you are DEFINITELY short changing the spectators!

I'm sure you have a great feild and a great club going on.....but you should be up front on what kind of flying is allowed by the pilots BEFORE they make the trip over there. I know if i traveled 100-500 miles ( or even more) and was not able to fly the way i wanted to.......AND i wasn't told before hand that i "could not" fly that way......I would be hunting someone down with a noose and a rope".

[Dan Reed]

No I cant 3D and I'v gotten over the distraction of them hovering in front of me.
If its too distracting for me I just land and wate for the pilot that is dooing his thing to land.
If you look at ski aeras they did not like or want snow borders on ther moutan. Look at what they have set up for them now.
Give it time!!!!!!!!

[ML3SMITH]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen,
Let’s all take a deep breath and sit back for a minute……..
Now let me introduce myself. My name is Mark Smith. I am the current President of LoveAir R/C, and proud to be so. I have a long history with the Rocky Mountain Big Bird Festival (BBF)– all 15 of them. This year will be 15th edition hosted by our Club. And with each year come learnings and natural evolution. And each year we make a best effort to keep up with the changing trends. After all, our goal is host an event that will be one of the best in the region, fun for pilots and spectators alike. The BBF has never set out to appeal to a single facet of the hobby except for that of large planes. We also host several events for specific segments of the hobby, be they pylon racing, helis, IMAC, jets, warbirds, etc. So far we haven’t hosted one specific to 3D flying, maybe next year. One appeal of the BBF has been the sheer variety of aircraft brought and flown by the participants. Its sole intent is to be giant scale fun fly, nothing more, nothing less.
Last year, #14, was the first year that to my knowledge we had pilots unhappy with some aspect of the event, to the point of leaving after one day. And while some might think it was just the “3D” guys complaining, it wasn’t. We also had one or more guys with beautifully crafted vintage planes upset as well. One gentleman in particular was flying his museum quality scale plane only to have a “3D capable” plane fly upstream against the normal flow of traffic. Dare I say “race track” pattern? He quickly landed and left shortly thereafter as did the “3D” pilot when the air bosses asked him not to fly against the traffic.
I honestly think that single incident snowballed into what is being expressed in this forum. I would be the first to say some of our volunteer “air bosses” may have been overly restrictive as a result. I’d also say the “3D” guys overreacted at the suggestion of any kind of restrictions.
I often sign off my articles in our newsletter with the following – “Remember, it’s our hobby, let’s have fun with it”. And that’s all we’re trying to accomplish with the Rocky Mountain Big Bird Festival. We’re not trying to trick anyone into coming so we can collect their money or be overly restrictive or any other concerns voiced in this thread. We seek to find that seemingly magical balance point so as to make this event appealing to ALL flyers of giant scale planes. It is really that simple, so let’s not over complicate it, over analyze it or make it into something it’s not.
If by chance, you already have discovered that magical formula for an event that appeals to all facets of giant scale flying, would you please share it with us so we can plan next year’s event around it? This year, as with most, is yet another test to see if THIS formula is the “ONE”. I will also add that all day Friday (15th) is open flying, as is 4 pm to dusk on Saturday (16th). That means pilot can hover, harrier and whatever else. I truly believe there is something for everyone as a result.
To echo the earlier comments from the co-Event Directors, I too, would encourage any pilot wanting to have a great weekend of flying and fellowship with other pilots to come and participate.

I am not a regular in these forums and this will be my one and only posting. If you would like to have a follow up conversation with me on this topic please send an email to President@LoveAirRC.org. Or via the Club website at http://www.loveairrc.org. Better yet, download the pilot registration form and make plans for a fun weekend!

Sincerely,
Mark Smith
2008 President - LoveAir RC

[Hammbone]

Mark,
If you truely think that last year was the first year there have been unhappy pilots, I just don't know where you've been.
If you truely think that all of this has "snowballed" from a single incident, I just don't know where you've been.
I've been attending the event for 4 years now. There has been some form of restriction on 3D flying every year that I have attended. Every year that I have attended, I've watched 3D pilots show up to the event only to find some kind of restriction on 3D flying. They were not happy. These pilots may not have left the event on Sat like some did last year (including me), but they did leave when the event was over vowing never to return again.
Do you think these pilots went home and told all their buddies what a great time they had? No way. They told all of their buddies not to bother going to this event. This is why the number of pilots that come to the event keeps dwindling.

You say the 3D guys overreacted at the suggestion of banning 3D. May I ask how you expect the 3D guys to act when 3D is banned from the event?

You said that "each year we make a best effort to keep up with the changing trends". I have not been around for all 14 years, I've only been here 4 years, but from what I've heard, the event has not changed much at all.
The most popular segment of our hobby right now is freestyle/3D flying. The event committee has decided to ban 3D flying from the event. Can you please explain to me how this is "making a best effort to keep up with the changing trends"?
This event seems to have started back when IMAA was somewhat popular. It is still being run like an IMAA type event. IMAA is dead.

If you want to have an event where 3D is banned, go right ahead, but why would you and the event committee expect 3D pilots to still attend the event? If 3D pilots can't fly 3D, they're not coming. I've tried to tell you guys this over and over again, but no one will listen.

Maybe now that you see this thread, you will understand that 3D pilots are not going to come to an event that has any kind of restrictions on 3D flying. Maybe you still won't get it.

My purpose for starting this thread was to let people know that 3D flying would not be allowed at this event so they could then decide if they wanted to attend the event or not. It's not fair to tell 3D flyers that they can't fly 3D after they've already driven 100's of miles to come to the event.

Jim

[TimDavie]

In the spirit of continuing model aviation, May I suggest......
segmenting the amount of time allowed for each type of flying based on the types and numbers of planes that show up. The segmentation of flight times must be adhered to and understood. It should be stated at the pilots meeting. Not everyone will like it. Not everyone likes the fact I hold my event during the last weekend in July. But, we do call it the Heatwave and they know what they are getting in to. If someone flies at the wrong time and understands they are doing so, then they are not using common sense. They should be asked to land.
Our event just hosted 86 pilots with all different types of planes.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/c...nes/index.aspx

[50%plane]

Here in NC, everyone flys for fun, everyone enjoys everyone's planes.(warbird and 3D) Wanna see a real event? come to the Fly For Tots. You'll see warbirds and 3D planes enjoying the airspace together. Everyone goes home happy.

[Hammbone]

[quote=ML3SMITH;532858]
If by chance, you already have discovered that magical formula for an event that appeals to all facets of giant scale flying, would you please share it with us so we can plan next year’s event around it? [/quote]

It's simple. You're never going to please everyone, so don't even try. I would hope you'd just concentrate on pleasing the majority. How do you please the majority? Get rid of all your regulations, rules, restricitons, and bans. Just let people fly and have fun. The AMA already has in place basic rules for flying. Those are the only rules we need.

Jim