Rocky Mountain Big Bird event

[Simpleton]

We used to have trouble with the circle flyers and the 3D guys, so we banned circle flying. Solved all them problems.

[gmilo]

Best idea I've heard yet to solve this issue.......

[crazyjoe]

If all you 3d flyer's would learn to fly on the deck then the circle flyer's would have plenty of room. Thats how we do it at are field. Seriously though what I have noticed is the guys complaining are the guys who really are not qualified to fly in front of large crowds. Also there is no reason guys cant fly 3d in the same direction the circle flyer's are flying. If your are going to fly in a stall you need to be lower so as to not get in the way of the circle flyer's. And what about spotters there job is to eliminate the risk of midair collisions.

[superdave1963]

This thread started about Pilots not being able to fly there own style of flying.......I would not be going to this fly in anyway.......BUT I can tell you if I did and was told I could not bang the sticks however I wanted I would be pissed.....Going to shreavport in a few weeks and I hope to see a little of every style...This is why there is other types of planes and yes helis...OH and jets which dont trip my trigger either but to each his own....and on and on.........

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by crazyjoe
	If all you 3d flyer's would learn to fly on the deck then the circle flyer's would have plenty of room. Thats how we do it at are field. Seriously though what I have noticed is the guys complaining are the guys who really are not qualified to fly in front of large crowds. Also there is no reason guys cant fly 3d in the same direction the circle flyer's are flying. If your are going to fly in a stall you need to be lower so as to not get in the way of the circle flyer's. And what about spotters there job is to eliminate the risk of midair collisions.

When we get DOD, other pilots complain that they can't concentrate on their flying and fear that they won't be able to land if they need to. If we fly up higher, other pilots complain that we are creating too much risk for a mid-air. Everyone should attend Joe Nall once and see just how many 3Ders you can get from the ground to 500 feet up and mix in with 200 mph jets and warbirds buzzing back and forth from each end of the runway doing photo passes and gun runs. If everyone is able to fly their aircraft safely, we can all mix it up without any problems or high risks. You need a good spotter watching everyone else keeping you clear no matter what you are flying. A good pilot with a sharp-eyed spotter is all it takes to keep EVERONE safe. If you don't have both, you have no business flying in front of even a small crowd. THAT would end some of this "you can't fly like this or like that" attitude. Even circling the field with a trainer can be a serious hazard to the safety of spectators with a not so skilled pilot and a spotter that just watches his pilot buddy's airplane buzz around. If it weren't for "Those Guys" ,no flying style would be an issue at any airshow. Just a few simple guidelines will keep everyone safe and keep anyones feelings from getting twisted by being told they can't fly a certain way. Keep your 3D from being directly over the active runway. Fly it off to the side, that way, if anyone needs to just drop in, they can. Spotters watch other traffic and advise your pilot of it, and give them a direction to avoid. We do it in IMAC all the time. Lastly, have your spotter call out what you are about to do to let everyone know if you are making a low, high speed pass, popping up into a hover off to the side of the runway, or bringing a heli in front of a pilot station. If everyone knows where each other is at all times, we can all co-exist safely and have fun. Making rules to exclude a group, any group, isn't the way to go.Crazyjoe is half right with his latter part of his post. We can 3D in the pattern AND you need a GOOD spotter, no matter what you fly. Like Forest Gump, That's all I have to say about that!

[Hammbone]

This thread has probably run its course.
I don't want to see it turn into a 3D vs circle flying war.
I don't want circle flying banned from this event. Doing that would make us no better than these anti-3D guys that are on the committee now. If we were to have a strictly 3D event, that would be different, but this event was supposed to be for the whole R/C flying community, with the only restriction being that it is for the bigger aircraft. At least that was my understanding. It's a shame that the committee has banned 3D flying, and thus completely alienated 3D/freestyle flyers from the event.

At one time, I believe this was a good event. It's been sad to watch it slowly die.

Jim

[rctomyam]

Concerned Flyers,

I have read all the posting regarding the BBF and can see where in the past we seemed restrictive. We have been, if you feel that during the times we allowed open flying the 3D was limited. This was done so pilots with a different skill sets could show off there scale planes or just fly around. However we had several segments throughout the days event opened to just 3D hot dogging with the only limitation, it be kept to the edge of the runway. This could be considered restrictive if you feel you should fly whenever. The biggist problem faced by flying 3D with the above mentioned flyers is where will they do the next manuver. It very hard to be flying a 45 lb scale airplane and someone pops up and does a torque roll right in front of your flight path. Some of the concern is what would happen if two airplanes, one flying the race track say a warbird at top speed and someone does a harrier and the two crash where will the airplanes go. We have had some near misses and crashes. Can these happen at any time YES!

This year we decided to stop all 3D flying unless it was done in the pattern during the event. (see restriction in event flyer) However we do have the noon air show where 3d is allowed and the field is open after 4pm and the entire day Friday to any type of flying. If you do decide to come join us, I would approach the Event and Contest director about being part of the noon show. I would also encourage you to give them your positive feedback about how we can safely allow any type of flying during the day. When making this contact be sure and think of all types of pilots and there skills.



I hope you do not feed off the negitive resposes and let it discourage you from attending. Hope to see you there.

TDY

[Simpleton]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Hammbone
	I don't want circle flying banned from this event. Doing that would make us no better than these anti-3D guys that are on the committee now.

We backed off the circle flying ban, it was too hard to train guys when they had to hand launch their trainers right into a hover. (Actually the ban on circle flying was all just tongue in cheek, we didn't ban anything. The last guy to complain about 3D died a few years ago, and I'm thinking he also won some sort of scale award at this event several years ago? It was some show in Colorado, Love Air I think).

[Hammbone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rctomyam
	Concerned Flyers, I have read all the posting regarding the BBF and can see where in the past we seemed restrictive. We have been, if you feel that during the times we allowed open flying the 3D was limited. This was done so pilots with a different skill sets could show off there scale planes or just fly around. However we had several segments throughout the days event opened to just 3D hot dogging with the only limitation, it be kept to the edge of the runway. This could be considered restrictive if you feel you should fly whenever. The biggist problem faced by flying 3D with the above mentioned flyers is where will they do the next manuver. It very hard to be flying a 45 lb scale airplane and someone pops up and does a torque roll right in front of your flight path. Some of the concern is what would happen if two airplanes, one flying the race track say a warbird at top speed and someone does a harrier and the two crash where will the airplanes go. We have had some near misses and crashes. Can these happen at any time YES! This year we decided to stop all 3D flying unless it was done in the pattern during the event. (see restriction in event flyer) However we do have the noon air show where 3d is allowed and the field is open after 4pm and the entire day Friday to any type of flying. If you do decide to come join us, I would approach the Event and Contest director about being part of the noon show. I would also encourage you to give them your positive feedback about how we can safely allow any type of flying during the day. When making this contact be sure and think of all types of pilots and there skills. I hope you do not feed off the negitive resposes and let it discourage you from attending. Hope to see you there. TDY

Same ol' crap here from yet another one of the anti-3D guys on the event committee. He thinks making everyone fly in a strict oval pattern last year was just a minor inconvenience.
I just found out last night that after I left the event last year at about lunch time on Sat, some poor guy from 100 miles away showed up at the field, put his 3.3M Yak together, started it up and went flying. No one else was flying at the time. He was the only one in the air. He didn't know that he wasn't supposed to fly 3D. He started hucking it all over from what I hear and the anti-3D nazi's went crazy. I heard that several guys started yelling at this guy and made him land. They told him 3D flying was not allowed and that he had to fly around in an oval pattern. The poor guy took his plane apart, put it back in his trailer and drove 100 miles back home.

This is exactly what I am trying to avoid this year by warning you guys about the ban on 3D.

All this talk about not being able to safely fly 3D together with warbirds or circle flyers is ridiculous. It is done every day all across the country (actually all over the world), and it is done every weekend and on some weekdays at the same airfield this event is held at. These guys on the event committee wouldn't know that though, because this event is basically the only time each year most of them are ever even at the airfield.

None of these guys on the event committee fly 3D. Most of them rarely fly at all. I don't even think they know what 3D flying really is. They probably think 3D flying is anything that scares them.
He stated above that "This year we decided to stop all 3D flying unless it was done in the pattern during the event". What does that statement even mean? It's O.K. to fly 3D if you remain in the racetrack pattern and don't slow down? Does he not even know that 3D is banned from the event? How do you fly 3D while staying in a racetrack pattern?
These guys are so out of touch with reality .......... It's like stepping back in time about 15 years.



Jim

[tec]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Hammbone
	I want to warn everyone that is thinking of coming to the Rocky Mountain Big Bird event in Fort Collins, CO on Aug 15 - 17 that 3D flying will NOT be allowed. I just don't want 3D flyers to waste their time or gas money coming to this event. If you're not a 3D flyer, or want to come even though 3D flying will not be allowed, by all means come and have fun. In years past, I've seen guys show up for the event, and then get told that they can't fly 3D. Obviously, they were not happy. With gas prices as high as they are now, I just don't want to see it happen any more. Jim

I guess I'll be staying home Why not just turn the big bird into a warbird event? Why do you think attendance is super low at Colorado events? Because you guy's make them suck, Go post this crap on another board, 99% of the people here only care about one thing, flying 3D. If you want to fly pattern, raise the age requirement to 75!

R/C flying in CO has really taken a dump in the last 6-7 years

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rctomyam
	Concerned Flyers, The biggist problem faced by flying 3D with the above mentioned flyers is where will they do the next manuver. It very hard to be flying a 45 lb scale airplane and someone pops up and does a torque roll right in front of your flight path. Some of the concern is what would happen if two airplanes, one flying the race track say a warbird at top speed and someone does a harrier and the two crash where will the airplanes go. We have had some near misses and crashes. Can these happen at any time YES!

Once again, all this can be resolved if everyone has a spotter WATCHING OTHER TRAFFIC AND CALLING HIS PILOT'S POSITION AND NEXT MOVE!!! If you're about to do a blazing, high speed pass a foot off the runway, call it so nobody harriers into a hover. If you're about to do a waterfall into a harrier down the runway, call it out so nobody does a high speed pass down the runway. Use some common sense and work as a team. If you are asked to spot for someone, it's not to stand out there and watch your buddy fly circles or cut loose doing every menuever in the book. A spotter is there to watch other traffic so a mid-air can be avoided. If someone is uncapable of this simple task, then you need a different spotter. I love all types of aircraft and flying styles. If I was in a mid-air from someone elses spotter not paying attention, rest assured that everyone within 100 yards would here the ass chewing in progress. This hobby is supposed to be fun and we're all supposed to get along. We should all be able to fly together without restriction. We just need to work together and communicate while we're out there so we don't wreck each others pride and joy. I would feel terrible and try my best to replace a lost model if my spotter dropped the ball and I slammed into someone. A cirlce pattern with ZERO aerobatics is still just as capable of producing mid-airs if nobody knows where the other pilots are or where they are about to be. COMMUNICATE!!!

[AllBread]

	Quote: Originally Posted by rctomyam
	Concerned Flyers, I have read all the posting regarding the BBF and can see where in the past we seemed restrictive. We have been, if you feel that during the times we allowed open flying the 3D was limited. This was done so pilots with a different skill sets could show off there scale planes or just fly around. However we had several segments throughout the days event opened to just 3D hot dogging with the only limitation, it be kept to the edge of the runway. This could be considered restrictive if you feel you should fly whenever. The biggist problem faced by flying 3D with the above mentioned flyers is where will they do the next manuver. It very hard to be flying a 45 lb scale airplane and someone pops up and does a torque roll right in front of your flight path. Some of the concern is what would happen if two airplanes, one flying the race track say a warbird at top speed and someone does a harrier and the two crash where will the airplanes go. We have had some near misses and crashes. Can these happen at any time YES! This year we decided to stop all 3D flying unless it was done in the pattern during the event. (see restriction in event flyer) However we do have the noon air show where 3d is allowed and the field is open after 4pm and the entire day Friday to any type of flying. If you do decide to come join us, I would approach the Event and Contest director about being part of the noon show. I would also encourage you to give them your positive feedback about how we can safely allow any type of flying during the day. When making this contact be sure and think of all types of pilots and there skills. I hope you do not feed off the negitive resposes and let it discourage you from attending. Hope to see you there. TDY

Great, thanks for clearing that up. I guess I won't be coming after all.

[tec]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BOSSIER_ROB
	Once again, all this can be resolved if everyone has a spotter WATCHING OTHER TRAFFIC AND CALLING HIS PILOT'S POSITION AND NEXT MOVE!!! If you're about to do a blazing, high speed pass a foot off the runway, call it so nobody harriers into a hover. If you're about to do a waterfall into a harrier down the runway, call it out so nobody does a high speed pass down the runway. Use some common sense and work as a team. If you are asked to spot for someone, it's not to stand out there and watch your buddy fly circles or cut loose doing every menuever in the book. A spotter is there to watch other traffic so a mid-air can be avoided. If someone is uncapable of this simple task, then you need a different spotter. I love all types of aircraft and flying styles. If I was in a mid-air from someone elses spotter not paying attention, rest assured that everyone within 100 yards would here the ass chewing in progress. This hobby is supposed to be fun and we're all supposed to get along. We should all be able to fly together without restriction. We just need to work together and communicate while we're out there so we don't wreck each others pride and joy. I would feel terrible and try my best to replace a lost model if my spotter dropped the ball and I slammed into someone. A cirlce pattern with ZERO aerobatics is still just as capable of producing mid-airs if nobody knows where the other pilots are or where they are about to be. COMMUNICATE!!!

Dude, we all know how it works!

The problem is the Club.

[SURREYRCAV8R]

I see a real simple solution to this that the committee organizing the event has obvioulsy overlooked. If they want to this to be a scale, oval flyin event tailored to large scale warbirds, then call it a WARBIRD fly in and remove big bird from the name of the event or better yet stipulate what type of planes are welcome at the event and lastly why invite 3D flying as part of the lunch time show...all that will do is excite the crowd that by lunch time would be dead or nearly dead from the boredom of watching all the ovals!

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by tec
	Dude, we all know how it works! The problem is the Club.

It was an explanation for rctomyam, that's why I quoted his comment. He doesn't seem to know how it works.