Biplane Fanatics

[toc pilot]

You guys really want a LARGE bi-plane? Hmmm...... which one? Lets have some oppinions!


Bill Hempel

I want oppinions of aerobatic bi-planes meant for IMAC style so don't sugest PT-17's or Nueport 11's . lol

If I design a bi-plane it will be designed around the 3W-275 motor so it will be big but not so big it doesnt have performance. So, I think that would mean a WS between 110-125"?

[MODE 1]

LOL Bills fishin.
Your Pitts Challenger is one of the nicest looking bipes. the shapes very sleek and classy. Dont like ultimates they look like someone made em up from leftover parts. Eagles ..... now they look like how a bipe should look. Gonna get slammed for this but I dont like Pythons either. looks like QQ had a far too many Yak parts laying around and made something up from them.

OOH OOH I thought of one I really like but its not a true bipe. The Rutan Racer (quivers) I made one some yrs back damn it was sexy looked like an X wing from star wars mine was 73" span but MY GOD to see that at 50% would ....well I wont go into the perverted details here

http://www.syntheticlubricants.org/AmsoilRutanRacer.jpg

[pfact]

Bill,

Its a pleasure to see you even consider a biplane. I would love a giant Pitts, the S12 or python would be my first choices but I suspect you have to deal with licensing issues with the Kimballs. The Challenger would also be great.

Hopefully you will make something bigger than the 3W 3M Pitts.

Phil

[MikeC3D]

Pitts M-12

P Y T H O N

Why does it have to be @ the 275? Why not a 150-170-210 size bird, Hell that would still be the biggest arf out. Alot of people are willing to get a 44%er..but a 50%...I dont know.
I have actually thought about getting your 50% Edge and making it lighter and using my 170 on pipes.

[crhammond]

Bill, how about the Weeks Solution??? How does yours fly precision? Other votes would be M-12 either the 2 seat or Python.

On the 3W 275... can it be made quiet enough for IMAC? Every video I have seen even with cans and a big 3-blade they seem ear splitting loud (no offence intended - I like loud but I like keeping flying fields more .) For IMAC it would have to at least pass the 97db test and ideally be a lot less than that to get 10's on the noise score No flying wires would be great too.

Transportation would probably be an issue - if you could make a way to remove the cabanes from outside and have a removable rudder it would probably transport in the space of a 40%er.

[ULTIMATE1]

	Quote: Originally Posted by toc pilot
	You guys really want a LARGE bi-plane? Hmmm...... which one? Lets have some oppinions! Bill Hempel I want oppinions of aerobatic bi-planes meant for IMAC style so don't sugest PT-17's or Nueport 11's . lol If I design a bi-plane it will be designed around the 3W-275 motor so it will be big but not so big it doesnt have performance. So, I think that would mean a WS between 110-125"?

Well since Mr. Somenzini has the pitts 12 line rights I believe It would have to be an Ultimate,Pitts Challenger,Weeks Solution,Christen Eagle,Bucker Jungman or My Favorite The REED FALCON as the Scale fliing surfaces are all semetrical and verl large and like the Ultimate it is not Short Coupled and has Won the TOC. I believe whatever you decide to make there will be buyers lined up for a large competitive style bipe of your quality!

[castlebravo]

Dont know if it was ever used in aerobatic competition but I always liked the looks of the Marquart Charger (It was a full size....right?) If not....just disregard this as the ramblings of an idiot!

[Thirteen Wings]

Bill, (or anyone lets open it up)
With all of your flight experience and keeping "looks" out of your decision, what do you prefer and why...Ultimates or Pitts?

[Blip]

WACO YMF-5

Sweet

http://www.wacoclassic.com/photo.html

[RickyD77]

the bulldog S2S was my choice...

[toc pilot]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Thirteen Wings
	Bill, (or anyone lets open it up) With all of your flight experience and keeping "looks" out of your decision, what do you prefer and why...Ultimates or Pitts?

My thought process.......

My choice of an Ultimate would be because they are very clean (aerodynamically), a standard type cowling (better cooling), Both wings are swept (better rolls and tracking), long tail moment and all around good IMAC style airplane. The huge populatity of this plane would also help sales beacuse these Ultimates really do fly GREAT!

Pitts S-12 or TI-12: QQ has it and I don't want to copy it(it is copy-right anyway). The round cowling is ok with me but the fuselage is a lot bigger; more weight, more drag (probabbly). QQ did the right thing with his only using 1-servo per control surface: This saves a TON of weight!

Pitts/Pitts Challenger: Great airplane but too short of a tail. Poor tracking and KE mixing to the max. 3W already has a huge version too. I would love to kit one like Sean D. TUcker as we are great friends! But I really dont think it will be good other than for freestyle.

Weeks Solution: great possibilities but I have one of these too and the airplane just does not track well. It will only be for freestyle. Weidner Modelbau already sells the 52% version. So why re-invent the wheel. Cool airplane though! I need more time with the one I own!

Reed Falcon: Great airplane, definatley thinkiing about this one.

Why a 3W-275? My prefered engine choice right now is this motor. This is one bad a$$ motor! I really believe this to be the best motor I have ever seen/run ever. These are bullet proof and reliable.

Why 50%: It is not about the scale size, it is all about building the biggest airplane I can around the 275 motor and still have 40% performance. Remember the saying: "Bigger is Better"? You guys really need to fly one of my planes! The 50% size airplane is great! They are sooooo much fun and the flying qualities are fantastic. Remember your thoughts from switching from a 35% plane to a 40% plane? The same feeling is there when you fly a 50% plane over a 40% plane! lol.
With Pefa canisters and the right BH propeller, these engines are just as quiet as the 150cc class.

Anyway, my goal (for those interested) is to continue producing 50% size airplanes around the 275cc motor class. Hopefully, more engine manufacturers will start making motors in this size. This would be good for everyone. EVO, ZDZ, and even DA either has something out there now or will have something soon.

Anyway, I will continue to research that perfect bi-plane and hopefully produce something!

Bill Hempel

[ULTIMATE1]

Bill if you do the REED FALCON I have plans and three views that I can copy and send you to help with the design.
brianmitchel@telus.net

[crhammond]

Bill based on what you said re: 3w275 an Ultimate would be awesome. If it comes out quiet, has a cool covering scheme and low coupling I'd likely be in (for the 2010 season anyway - since its gonna take some time to get it off the drawing board.)

I have the TOC 40% Pitts M-12 I am working on now. It is 111" wingspan, 107" rudder to spinner and it fits in my 10x6 trailer no problem. A 125" wingspan Ultimate 10-300 would be about 137.5" long - wow - sweet!!! Talk about a nice long tail moment for IMAC. Probably worth upgrading the trailer for LOL.

Thin wings, airfoiled tail... it could be so sweet. And with no flying wires - now that would be incredible.

DO IT! DO IT! LOL.

[MikeC3D]

Oh well....cant blame a guy for trying!
And FWIW...QQ only has rights to model the TI-12 not the Python or M-12. In fact, I think it is cover scheme only, in a way. Because the truth is, his plane is a Trueworthy kit with his own modifications done to it ( of which we would never really know, totally ) so if Mr.Trueworthy would produce kits again, it would'nt be too difficult to build your own, plus he offered a single place option in his kits. Clip the wings and there you have it....sort of...lol
Maybe I can talk Bob into ARF'ing the 80%er........roflmao

[ULTIMATE1]

Bill just did the math and a 50% REED FALCON would have a wingspan of 112.5 inches and an overall lenght of 115 inches