ARF for 150cc Around 36 LBS.

[ben_beyer]

Might just put a Dalton 260 or 300 together. Trouble now is deciding which one. The main reason for this is that with the release of the DA 170, I could probably find a 150 for cheaper. The new price tag on the 150 ($1395) already looks better. And with the JR 8711's out, I could just use two on each wing, one on each elevator, and two in the tail for rudder. Now, if I could get the airframe down to 36 lbs., then a 150 would be pretty good power (I'm assuming). Furthermore, what if I could also put the engine on cans and keep it within a few ounces or under 37 lbs.?

[Flatlandman]

A 40% with a 150 will have really good power even if its 40 pounds. It will 3d and fly imac at that weight very well. Dont get to crazy people use to fly those cardens at 45 pounds with the 150 and regular mufflers.

[sensei]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flatlandman
	A 40% with a 150 will have really good power even if its 40 pounds. It will 3d and fly imac at that weight very well. Dont get to crazy people use to fly those cardens at 45 pounds with the 150 and regular mufflers.

That is very true, however when you get down below 38 lbs. on a 40%; you go from a really good flying airplane; to a fantastic flying airplane in IMAC and Killer in 3D...

Bob

[ben_beyer]

Thanks guys, do you think there would be any problem with my proposed set up? I'd really like to go with cans, but I might have to settle for standard mufflers.

Also, does anyone know what it would cost to have the cowl painted? I wouldn't think it would take a lot of paint, but that stuff can be expensive and there's labor to go on top of it.

[Flatlandman]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sensei
	That is very true, however when you get down below 38 lbs. on a 40%; you go from a really good flying airplane; to a fantastic flying airplane in IMAC and Killer in 3D... Bob

No argument there just wanted to say its not the end of the world to have a 40% plane above 36 pounds.

[ben_beyer]

Well, for the most part, lighter is always better. I've never flown a 40% plane, but I don't want a pig and I was curious if there was anything out there in an ARF that would come out around 36 lbs. with a 3W/DA 150. The price of the DA 150 has come down (even if it's just $100) and plus some people may be selling theirs since the 170 is out. It's just a good opportunity to get a 40% plane if you don't mind an extra 1/4 lbs. and little less power with the 150 vs. the 170. Now the next big decision is to get an Extra 260 or 300.

[MikeC3D]

At the beginning you said ARF.....Daltons are not ARF's.....I dont know of any off the shelf 40% ARF out there that comes in at 36lbs rtf. And honestly I dont think we will anytime soon. If you want a Dalton or Carden built and delivered to you in an ARF state, then yeah that could be done, but its gonna cost you plenty. If you want a true ARF, then buy whatever you want and get to trimming, get it to 36lbs. yourself. We now know a 40% SD Yak and a 42% AW 260 can get there.

[ben_beyer]

Well, I was interested in an ARF and yes with some trimming I could get it to 36 lbs. And I know Daltons aren't ARFs. However, it sounds like the safest bet is to get a kit and try to get it there. I just didn't know what was available and what people have done.

[rdgood]

Ben,

I have talked to Tony Russo on the phone about getting a 260 built.
It is spendy like Mike said!!
I do believe that for the bucks - The Dalton is more complete than the Carden..
1550 will get a sheeted wings/Stabs/Rudder
Framed up fuse and turtledecks - I have to check his website to be sure...
One thing to rememember about the Dalton is the wing area is 2850 squares.
At 37-38 lbs it is the lightest stock wingloading. Now thats before you do any mods!!!

I really want one of these.. Just dont have the funds yet to have Tony build me one....

Oh - FWIW - Tony will build to any level of completion.. That includes the sweet painted engine cowl and painting the canopy(glassing into the front turtle deck) sweet stuff...

Just some ideas...

I gotta wait to see how well santa does this year along with the economy...

I think in terms of raw wingloading ya can't go wrong with the Dalton 260 (2850squares) solution-IMHO..

If I were truly motivated I would tackle one of the SD models and modify it like Mike and Sensei did - awesome inspiring thread by the way!!! Kinda shows where there is a will there's a way !!!!

Mike's 40% yak is 3000 plus squares at 36 lbs - that's just sick right there!!!! Awesome!!


Ronster

[ben_beyer]

Honestly, if I went the Dalton route, I'd build most of it myself. I'd probably look into having the foam sheeted for me and that's about it. I'd also probably go with the regular Extra 300 since it has more side area. I have to see what happens with the economy myself before I go and spend any money. It's just life.

[rdgood]

To me,

I think in terms of value the Dalton is probably better than the Carden.. They both will do very well all the way up to unlimted in IMAC. I have heard that the 260 is the better one at 3D..
Tony says that is his favorite!
For the amount of work verses price of the builders kit ya can't go wrong.. IMHO...

I do think the Dalton's are better 3D machines than the Cardens only because the wing area is much better(250 squares more). But the Carden's will do very well for IMAC...

The thing that stops me cold from doing a builder's kit is getting the paint done..

I just wish there was a easier way to get a high quality paint job. Every time I try to get the stuff it always adds up to about 400 bucks to get a decent paint job... there are no gaurantees that it will turn out right...I have tried to have other folks do it and they dont understand the weight thing
They just want to keep piling on the paint - and ya want paint that will flex without cracking and so on... ugggh!

Ronster

[MikeC3D]

Sheeting is the easy part, Carden comes with the shucks, doesnt' Dalton...?

[rdgood]

Mike,

I am pretty sure that Daton's would have the shucks..

Actually doing the sheeting is the easy part - once you have trued your balsa and glued the edge sheeting strips together.. Now if your gonna do the coring thing - well that's a whole nother ball game. That's where I would get somebody like Sensei to help out.. Knowing just where to core is very critical there - IMHO... It can be done. The alphatic glues are much better now than they were a few years ago...

Ronster

[ben_beyer]

I just don't have space to do the sheeting. My workbench isn't big enough and it's just easier to have someone else do it than risk messing up a set of cores.

[bodywerks]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Flatlandman
	A 40% with a 150 will have really good power even if its 40 pounds. It will 3d and fly imac at that weight very well. Dont get to crazy people use to fly those cardens at 45 pounds with the 150 and regular mufflers.

I was only in Intermediate at the TAS this year, and my sub-38-pound Extra with a 150 and Greves tuned pipes was what I would consider 'sufficient' power. There were times that I wished I had more, though...
BIll Hemple had a 41 pound Extra with a 3W 170 on it and he struggled to get through some of the vertical line maneuvers.
Come to Tucson with a 40 pound plane and stock 150, at nearly 3,000 feet and 25mph winds, and do a 45 upline with a positive 1-1/2 snap from inverted(breaking you to the ground), then pull to the vertical and do 7 of 4 points followed by a hammerhead and tell me that you have plenty of power.