Really cool brake set up!

[reyn3545]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pepatrick
	The Krill may have to find a new home. I am getting the jet bug...Yeah..I know..I said I would not...but well...does anything we do in this hobby make sense. So..Im looking for a King Cat..with a Titan on it...Yeah...Im nuts. You know where I can get a good deal on a Velox...ROFL!!!!

Oh... you are WAYYYY to funny! By the way, I did get a cashier's check for the full amount from that guy on Friday, so I guess a little legal pressure does work... now let's see if the cashier's check is good.

Yeah, on the jet front... now aparently there are two of us looking for a King Cat! That's what I really want, and I could (obviously) buy one of the knock-offs and probably be just as happy with it, but I really want a King Cat. I think the Bobcat sized planes would get tiny too fast for them to be as much fun, but when you consider that the turbine is about half the price in the Bobcat... it makes you think!

Everyone says that the sport jets like the King Cat are kind of boring because they're not scale.... but at this point, I think I'd like a sport jet better. Some of the other BVM sport jets look nice, but I keep coming back to the cat.

[octanehuffer]

	Quote: Originally Posted by robertp17
	If you guys have better ideas then go develop it yourselves. Vern is trying to get input on his brake setup that he has obviously put a lot of time into designing and building and you come up with, why not try the brakes from a monster truck! He is not asking for a better idea, he wants to know who would be interested in his brake setup. I for one like it, and if I flew from asphalt I would own them because I have tried to land on it before at other fields and I could not get stopped. Is it spring yet

Point is, I am not going to buy a set of them. Not until it is a better product. With the mentality of take it or leave it, most will leave it.
The current design has too many constraints. I like the brake idea. I will hand out some moolah when I see a more practical design. ie something that lasts longer, operates better.
It seems that the prototype is still in the design stages. Yes, it has been proved that it works. Now design it so it works better. Will I buy this in its current form? NO
The nice thing about these forums is that the public has the ability to provide input to the manufacturer. Something that started to kill the American auto industry long ago. Its now biting them in the ass. If only the big three had listened to the people 2 decades ago.

[pepatrick]

I was kind of thinking the idea of the post was to get consumer feed back (positive and negative). If every says its worth having and they guys that dont like it are not allowed to express their opinions, WRE will get a one sided view and may think that more people want this product than actually do. He has to weigh everyones input to see if the brake idea is a valid idea. Positive and negative feedback should be equally considered to see if it is worth his time to spend additional R&D funds to put these things out. I take off and land on grass and paved runways and dont seem to have much of a problem stopping my Yak. Maybe its because it has a huge garbage can lid on the front end of it to slow it down... I dont have a better solution because I dont think its justified. Some of you may think its justified. In reality..his idea is simple and will probably work for those of you that feel you need it. There is just something I dont like about having brakes on the front of an aerobatic plane...and something get stuck in the calipers on landing..I want it as simple as possible.

[Vern Smith]

	Quote: Originally Posted by octanehuffer
	So, why not use brakes from a nitro monster truck. The twin vented rotor setup on my HPI Savage SS is real heavy duty. It contains floating calipers with friction material. I can easily get 50 flights in a week. Still dont want to adjust the brakes. Having more friction material will help.

The calipers/brake pads we used are from the the Traxxas RC car folks. We didn't use their rotor because it was 1.5" in diameter and we felt 2" would have more endurance. As Mr. Octanehuffer states above they will last a very long time between adjustments.

"What about an inflatable ring made from tubing that sits parallel to the wheel. When inflated by pneumatics, the ring applies pressure through a plate to the side of the wheel? Light and adjustable. "
__________________
Shaun


We tired the squeeze the wheel from the side approach first, refer to the photo in my last post. Whether you do it with an expanding ring or a friction washer the problem is the same. You are trying to restrain a movement in one axis by applying force perpendicular to it. It worked OK until Tony turned the airplane on roll out. The side loads when turning are doing the same thing as your brake pressure. Using a right turn as an example, the centrifugal force pushes the right wheel against the wheel collar holding the right wheel on the axle and the pushes the left wheel against the collar/bushing on the inside of the wheel. The result is the right wheel has a big sudden increase in braking force the the left wheel looses a proportionate amount.

The automotive and aircraft industry settled on the disk brake years ago as the best approach and I would like to think they had good reasons to do so.

Once again I appreciate the input and will continue to try to improve the product. I would like to come up with a way to turn the brakes on and off from the transmitter but have not come up with anything yet. I have a couple other guys testing the brakes and hopefully their reports will also be positive and assuage the doubts of several of this posts contributors.

As I recall, someone said they fly 50 flights a week, maybe they would be interested in doing an evaluation? In a couple weeks we should have a report back that would be representative of the amount of usage most guys get during an entire flying season.

Being computer challenged I have not been able to figure out how to get multiple quotes from different posts into a single reply. Can someone give me a hint?

Vern

[sprice50]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Vern Smith
	Being computer challenged I have not been able to figure out how to get multiple quotes from different posts into a single reply. Can someone give me a hint? Vern

Press the Multi quote button just to the right of the quote button, for all posts you wish to quote. Then press quote button on any post.
Voila.... multiple quotes.

[reyn3545]

I never knew what that image was, or what it was for!

[Vern Smith]

	Quote: Originally Posted by sprice50
	Press the Multi quote button just to the right of the quote button, for all posts you wish to quote. Then press quote button on any post. Voila.... multiple quotes.

Thanks Shaun

	Quote: Originally Posted by reyn3545
	I never knew what that image was, or what it was for!

Me either!

Vern

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by SleepyC
	Man.. I can tell winter is hear for many! People complain that no one is trying new things, and pushing the envelope of what is "normal" in the RC industry. Here's a guy who is doing more than "Hey guy's I have an idea" he's developing new ideas into actual products. I personally think the wheel is really cool. I have a pile of cracked wheel pants that basically the only reason the pants cracked was due to the rubber wheel flexing or deforming and rubbing on the wheelpant. I bet this wheel stops all that. Cool ideas and products!

The wheel is different and would have saved my last prop from the nose over the wheel/wheelpant caused. The only problem, for me, is that it is a little too much like the cars I see around here. Too much wheel, not enough rubber(kinda ghetto). Just not my taste, yet I can see a functional use for them saving wheel pants and there will be many people that like the look. As for the brake, I can only see nose overs happening from someone who sets it a little too tight for the first try. I have no trouble stopping at mid runway on the asphalt, but if my wheels are so loose between the collars that my plane rolls at the lowest possible idle, I'd eliminate the gap for friction instead of adding weight with a brake. I'm not slamming your product, but I can't invision a need for them. Only my honest opinion.

[octanehuffer]

Personally, I add full 3D elevator up when I land and taxi. It slows the plane quite well.

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by octanehuffer
	Personally, I add full 3D elevator up when I land and taxi. It slows the plane quite well.

I do the same once it slows enough to do so. I've hit it too soon and my plane balloned in the air when I first started flying it. I didn't think a 38lb plane would lift as slow as it was. On another note, I had a trainer with friction brakes actuated by a wire that pulled to engage and was hooked to the elevator servo. It was a tricycle gear, brake was on the nosegear, and when down elevator was applied, it engaged the brake. As for a taildragger, I can see a brake having better luck on a tailwheel. It would slow a plane faster than one without, and have no chance of nosing one over. Maybe your brake can be applied to a tailwheel. I would buy one of those before I put brakes on the mains.

[3D Meatshield]

Vern, have you ever thought about using urethane rollerblade wheels? They have a higher profile, and can also be had in varying hardnesses. Back in the day I had several sets of wheels that I would switch out depending on where we were blading that day.

Using the urethane tires makes a ton of sense, I just can't grasp the low profile thing. Smaller hub + higher profile, like your sullivan setup, but with the urethane tires from a rollerblade wheel... and you can get those in several colors too.

Sleepy- why don't you step up, drop the cash and pimp the TB with a set? Showing them off at all the huckfests next year would be great advertising, eh?

[Vern Smith]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BOSSIER_ROB
	As for a taildragger, I can see a brake having better luck on a tailwheel. It would slow a plane faster than one without, and have no chance of nosing one over. Maybe your brake can be applied to a tailwheel. I would buy one of those before I put brakes on the mains.

The tail wheel does not have enough contact patch to use for braking. You would have flat spots in short order. It's surprising how much resistance it takes to overcome the idle roll on asphalt.

	Quote: Originally Posted by 3D Meatshield
	Using the urethane tires makes a ton of sense, I just can't grasp the low profile thing. Smaller hub + higher profile, like your sullivan setup, but with the urethane tires from a rollerblade wheel... and you can get those in several colors too.

Our wheels do use urethane tires, Shore 85 to 90 hardness. This is almost as hard as skate board wheels. The reason we use the low profile approach is weight. If we made the hub 3.5" in diameter and the tire 4.5" the weight would he over 8 ounces. Urethane is tough and dense, and compared to the spongy stuff in Dubro and Sullivan tires, quite heavy.

Vern

[BOSSIER_ROB]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Vern Smith
	The tail wheel does not have enough contact patch to use for braking. You would have flat spots in short order. It's surprising how much resistance it takes to overcome the idle roll on asphalt.Vern

I've had my tailwheel pop off and turn sideways on the rim on landing. You talk about stopping quick! My field is asphalt and I don't have trouble with it rolling away at idle. This is a 42%, and my last 35% didn't roll either, so I don't see your point, but that's ok. We all have opionions. Good luck with your product.

[Vern Smith]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BOSSIER_ROB
	My field is asphalt and I don't have trouble with it rolling away at idle. This is a 42%, and my last 35% didn't roll either, so I don't see your point, but that's ok. We all have opionions. Good luck with your product.

Any engine/prop combination that has the power to haul around a 30 to 40 pound plane will have residual thrust at idle, assuming you are not using an adjustable pitch prop, it's basic physics. So now the question is why do some folks have a problem with it and others don't.

The only thing short of a head wind, soft sand, grass or inertia, that can overcome the residual thrust of the engine is rolling resistance (brakes). It looks like you are fortunate to have your rolling resistance built in. It's either tight hub/axle fits, dirt, wheel pants rubbing the tires, spongy tires, etc.

The brakes are really not intended to keep a plane still on the runway although they do that very well. The intent is to slow a plane down enough to safely turn it around at the end of the runway or as the plane approaches the pilot after a flight.

Obviously the brakes would not be for those that don't have the problem, for those that do they would solve it.

Vern

[N726AC]

I have moved the brakes to a new airplane and a new set of wheels. ( 37.5% Pilot-RC Yak 54 )


They are still working great with zero issues. I will be willing to let anyone try them at the Chattanooga 3D Jam. Simple bolt on installation.