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Old 12-03-2008, 05:49 AM   #1
RogerIngarfield
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Default Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Hi Guys,
My name is Roger, I live in Cape Town, South Africa (so I have a very different accent to most of you) and I am returning to the hobby/sport after a lay-off of about 20 years. I have just registered on the website, in the hope that I be able to join a virtual community with aligned interests and that we will be able to share information.

A quick (I have now re-read it and its not so quick) run-up on where I am with RC.

I used to fly pattern in the 80's in the days of 10cc motors and Curares and Hanno Prettners Magic. We flew the Aresti pattern schedules, and I got to expert level before it became clear that the 'issues and politics' surrounding competitive flying was ruining my love for RC flying.
So, that was that ... for a while, I just stopped.
But I can tell you this, if flying is in your blood, its in your blood.
I saw a television article about full size pylon racing in Dubai, it was earlier this year, and that was that.
I went out and investigated kits, discovered this new thing called ARF kits, was astonished at the level of finish and quality of them and walked out with a Seagull Edge 540. The kits I was used to was a box of wood and plans that you rolled out and pinned to a surface. An OS 61 long stroke pumper motor that had been in its box for 20 years came out, I had a JR set that was also dusted off and it was off to the flying field.
After a little struggling with getting the needle valve setting for a pumper motor, the OS fired up and then ticked over like no time had passed, smooth as silk.
A friend took it up the first time and then it was over to me. It was like riding a bicycle, the instincts that I had learnt all those years ago were still there. OK eyesight not quite as sharp, so I kept the plane quite close, but it was straight back into it.
I have now had about 20 flights with the Edge and it is flying quite well. I sometime struggle with landing it in the wind, it has some funny tendancies on landing approach (suddenly balloons up while flaring out). But I am steadily trimming it out, needed some right thrust, some differential, it won't stay on knife edge without wanting to roll back out, but its coming on.

SO, why am I boring all you guys with big aircraft with this nostalgic nonsense.

Because, coming back to the hobby, Youtube was new, (so were mobile phones ringing in peoples pockets while they were flying), and in the process of finding out more about the Edge I starting seeing video clips of guys flying very big aircraft and doing strange manouvres I later learnt was called 3D. And one website kept popping up on each of my searches, FlyingGiants.com.
I realised there was a whole new world of flying going on. Gas engines, 50cc for petes sake (I used to ride a motorcycle with a 50cc engine). People told me once you move over to gas you never look back.
I must add, in Cape Town, we have wind, lots of wind. To have a day with a wind speed much less than 10 knots is quite rare. My logic told me, small planes get really buffeted by the wind, the bigger you go the less influence the wind will have.
That piece of logic led me to investigate planes, and bit by bit I became more convinced that a Yak was the aircraft for me. Highly aerobatic without vicious tendancies. I seen quite a few clips on Youtube with hovering, and the more radical 3D type manouvers. I think the level of skill is fantastic, I am amazed the airframes can take those manouvers like 'the wall' but it has made me form my own view on aerobatics and what I want to do (for now, I might change it later)

At this stage I am not nuts about hovering and that hectic 3D stuff, my view is that it is unbecomming of a fixed wing aircraft to do those sorts of manouvres. It doesn't look scale to me, the manouvers are far too severe for any pilot to withstand. Also I find it 'all over the place' like there is no real plan to the aerobatic schedule.
Through this website I discovered and ordered a book on aerobatics by Scott Stoops. Its really good, my plan is to work through a series of exercises and hopefully in the not too distant future be able to fly a respectable rolling circle.
So I have just started assembling a Pilot-RC Yak 54, I have a DL 50 motor and I will use a Spektrum DX7 radio.

I am hoping to learn stuff from you guys like -

The Yak - what to expect, are my expectations realistic?

The DL 50 and gas - any advice, I was going to run it in on a bench, then everything I read said don't, run it in on the plane.

The Spektrum DX7 - It was also through this website that I learnt that there were heat issues with Futaba Fasst, so I chose Spektrum.

Developing flying skills - I know there are brilliant pilots in this forum, what tips and exercises would you suggest

Roger
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:17 AM   #2
bodywerks
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

That Yak will be able to do anything that you are capable of. A nice rolling circle is just as impressive as a good hover, harrier roll, etc...whatever floats your boat, I always say.
Gotta remember that one of the advantages of R/C modeling is that we have the ability to do things that full-scale can't do. If you give hovering and torquerolling a try and become successful at it, you will find that it gives you a feeling of 'being in the groove' like that perfect rolling circle - only a little more awe-inspiring...
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:26 AM   #3
gene6029
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Welcome back to the hobby! Alot has changed in the 20 yrs you have been away. Hell, this hobby changes every couple of months. Most of it is for the better tho. I was away for only a few years myself and got back only 2-3 tears ago. This is a GREAT site to get caught up on whats happening. Looks like you would make a great IMAC pilot since you fly in the wind all the time. ( IMAC events require lots of wind ) You are right on about the bigger planes handeling the wind better than the small ones. Hang in there and good luck, you'll get lots of information here.....Gene
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:18 PM   #4
jschenck
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Of all the airplanes I've owned my Curare was my favorite. It had an unfortunate demise in about 1990.

Check out what I have in my basement
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:52 AM   #5
Torqmeister
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Roger, welcome back to the hobby. Our early hobby experience are quite similar. I flew pattern back in the 70s, was out of the hobby for 24 yrs, & am back now. Whata great way to spend money, and enjoy my free time. I presently fly an Extreme Flight 110" Yak 54, & I love it. I had an 87" Yak similar to the one you have. Had close to 200 flights on it, & really enjoyed it.
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:27 AM   #6
RogerIngarfield
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Thanks for the welcome guys, this is really great hearing from you guys all over the world. (Jshenk) Interesting pics of Hanno Prettners Mystic, is the kit still in the box? Hanno was the world champion in those years with Wolfgang Matt in second place as I recall. And (bodywerks), you are right, once I get a torque roll right, I will be right into it.
I am probably still a bit locked into Aresti style flying with turning manouvers and a central manouver. It can all change. At the moment I am still trying to hold my nerve and keep the plane on knife edge and start learning to use the elevetor as a turning flying surface.
There is so much information on this site. Almost information overload.
I am now reading about lock outs and signal loss and people losing planes due to Futaba and Spektrum radios (there are a couple of threads on this site). How do you take this? Do you view your new equipment
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:37 AM   #7
RogerIngarfield
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

(continued) with suspicion? or do you just equate it to a very low statistical likelyhood? (ie 4 incidents reported on this site versus 400 000 successful systems gives you a risk statistic that is extremely low).

I am in the process of installing my Spektrum DX7 in the Yak and all this information has made me quite nervous.
I will follow all the instructions, ie position of the RX and the satellite TX, keep the ignition wiring separate from the TX wiring. I am using higher torque servos than in the DX7 box so I will get advice on the battery system to use. (Lipo, NhMH or Nicad and what size)
But is there anywhere I could find the best way to do all this to minimize the risk of an unnessary crash.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:07 AM   #8
Absolut Yak
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Roger, good to have you back in the sport. I knew I recognized the accent when I read your post. I live in the USA, but grew up in Lesotho. My sisters went to school over the hill from Cape Town in Somerset West.

The Spektrum lockout issue is related to low voltage when the receiver goes into a reboot. Original versions of the receiver took several seconds to reset and those seconds are cruicial. Newer versions of the receiver, and older ones that have been sent back, have this delay reduced to about 1/2 second. There is a way to tell if you have the new receiver update, but you will need to do a search or have someone chime in here to tell you specifically.

The fix for this problem is to make sure your receiver voltage never drops below the critical voltage (I think 3.6v, but do your own search to verifiy this.) In my case, I had a regulator that couldn't handle the instantaneous current draw from my Hitec 5955 servos while doing hard point rolls. I did some research and found a relatively unknown (at that time) battery type called A123's. They put out a near constant 6.6v and do not require the use of a regulator to the Spektrum receiver and the servos are still happy after 150 flights. A single 2 cell 2300mah pack is plenty to run five high torque servos for your flight controls plus whatever you want on the throttle. It is safe to fly at least 4 12 minute flights without recharging, and probably more flights than that. It just happens that 4 flights is my typical day. With the appropriate charger, and an appropriate charger is REQUIRED,

Last edited by Absolut Yak; 12-05-2008 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:07 AM   #9
Absolut Yak
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

(continued - second try) the batteries can be charged at up to a 10C charge rate, meaning less than 15 minutes. I usually charge at the field. That is very convenient. I never lose a flying opportunity simply because I didn't think to put the batteries on charge the night before.

I run A123's on my DA ignition as well. I cannot address if you need a regulator on the DL ignition.

I use a Cellpro 4S charger from FMA Direct. I use Smartfly switches with Deans plug on the battery side and JR/Universal dual output plug leads going to the receiver. Simply plug one lead into the receiver and the other into any open port on the receiver or into a Y-connector with an existing servo lead. A123's can be had from any number of vendors, or can be made from power tool battery packs such as the DeWalt 36v packs. Do as search on Flying Giants for A123's for Dummies. There are other valuable threads as well.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Hope it helps. You are in for a real treat with the major advances that occured whle you were gone.

Doug

Last edited by Absolut Yak; 12-05-2008 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 12-05-2008, 07:10 AM   #10
maineflyer
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

I will second the A123s mentioned. I have the same set up and as far as servos go any good metal geared, high torque servo will work. I too have a DX-7 and use hitec coreless on most of my stuff with some 5625s on ailerons. The A123s take any voltage issues out of the mix. 1 2300ma battery pack will handle anyone a 50cc will through at it. I have changed all my planes to that setup. Oh by the way they charge from flat to full in about 15-20 minutes
Jeff
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:43 AM   #11
k3sui
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Hi Roger ... I recently returned to flying after a 30 year hiatus and was impacted by the cultural shock, same as you. I have built and flown some of the old planes, but am also flying the new stuff.

There have been amazing improvements in the hobby over the years. The large scale aircraft and motors to fly them are the most amazing. The radios are very good, also.

My past joy was pylon racing. I see that that endevor has mostly died and blown away. The few that are still doing it are now a 200 MPH and I don't believe that my aged motor reflexes will keep up with that.

In any event ... Enjoy the ride. There is a whole new universe to discover out there today.

All the very best and a Merry Christmas from the Blue Ridge ...

Barry in West Virginia

Last edited by k3sui; 12-05-2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason: added more stuff
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:17 PM   #12
DR10044
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Welcome back! 1. If you want to jump start your skills buy a flight simulator, talk about change. You probably remember the old Dave Brown pong like simulator. Today they are very realistic. 2. Get a foamy or beater plane to practice with, it's winter now, if you can find a gym there are lot of foam planes on the market that 3d great and fly great in small gyms. Give 3d a chance. I think you will find that it is just and extension or evolution to regular aerobatics.
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:46 AM   #13
jschenck
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Quote:
Interesting pics of Hanno Prettners Mystic, is the kit still in the box?
Yes, this is still a new in box (NIB) kit - it's actually an early example of an ARF made by the EZ company way back then. They were expensive kits with smooth plastic skinned airframes. They are a bit of a build though compared to todays ARF's. This kit is actually setup for retracts and a full lenght tuned pipe. Quite an interesting kit for a 30 size pattern ship. Maybe someday I'll find the time to build it.
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Welcome back! I would agree with the previous member statements about the A123 cells being the the best way to go.. I have had good luck with the Fromco cells on my larger planes, but have also made a few packs out of cells from the Black and Decker One tools. - Over here you can buy a battery at WalMart with 2 1100mah A123 cells in it for $19. Makes a nice pack for glow planes or if your run two packs for a 50cc plane for a few flights. If you aren't going to A123 or lipo w/a regulator, use a 5 celll nicad or nimh with a decent mah rating on your spectktrum receivers. A 4 cell pack doesn't give you enough voltage margin to avoid browning out your receiver.
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Old 12-06-2008, 04:53 AM   #15
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Default Re: Back to flying after 20 years - A Yak with DL 50cc

Dang if this does not sound familiar ! I had a lay off for ten years and got back into it with a 30% and a DL 50cc. Small world huh?

I was hoping to get a TOC or Pilot Extra for my Winter project pwered by a DL 100 but I'm thinking I cannot afford it right now.

Without ever seeing a Pilot Yak fly I know it will fly well and better than most pilots are capable of. They really are putting out some planes since you were in it that fly better than anything back then. Except maybe some custom builds. There were certainly not any planes with current building designs. Hell, I had to add a piece of ply to have enough wood to cut out for a JR HD switch ! The Yak is nothing but lightening holes !!

Me, I still prefer Extras for my type of flying. They make me look better !

Welcome Back !
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