Question on '09 Basic maneuver #10, Positive spin vs Neg spin?

[davensocal]

OK, via this question, you will all know I am a newb..

Had one question on the '09 Basic sequence.. Maneuver #10 is 2 inverted positive spins..

My question is, what is the difference between positive and negative spins?

And thanks to all the contirbutors here.. Even though I have mostly been lurking, I have learned a lot , and now have my Basic sequence in hand, and my Aresti Made Simple bible.. I am ready to crash some planes!

[SmoothFlying]

one is right side up and the other is inverted, canopy facing up, canopy facing down, right side up, upside down. However you want to call it. Havent looked at the basic sequence but I wouldnt think basic would have any negative spins. I could be wrong though.

[davensocal]

Hi Chris..

The Aresti shows a dashed vertical line leading into the spin, and lists the spin as positive (white triangle)..

So that should be canopy down, because of the dashed line, right?

And then spinning with right or left rudder doesn't matter?

Or, (Maybe I understand now).. The dahsed line is just showing that you have to push from horiz to enter the maneuver?

[toc pilot]

The spins in the basic sequence are positive, upright spins. 2-turns (any direction). The simbol for spins are those flattend triangles you see in the sequence, if it was for inverted spins they would be 'red' in color.

You will also note that the line drawn prior to the manuever is a solid black line which will also indicate that you are flying upright going into this manuever.

So, perform your 1/2 square loop up with 1/2 roll, push top. Enter the 2-turn spin (upright) and exit upright after 2-turns.

Good luck!!

Bill Hempel

[The Dirt Doctor]

	Quote: Originally Posted by davensocal
	OK, via this question, you will all know I am a newb.. Had one question on the '09 Basic sequence.. Maneuver #10 is 2 inverted positive spins.. My question is, what is the difference between positive and negative spins? And thanks to all the contirbutors here.. Even though I have mostly been lurking, I have learned a lot , and now have my Basic sequence in hand, and my Aresti Made Simple bible.. I am ready to crash some planes!

Go to www.mini-eac.com and read the article "how to read Aresti". Most of your questions on what the symbols mean will be addressed in that article. It would also be a good idea for you to attend an IMAC-sponsored Flying and Judging Seminar put on somewhere near you. BTW, what is you location?

Bobby

[davensocal]

Hi Bill-
Thanks..

So, what's up with the dashed line leading into the spin?

As you mentioned, it is a solid black line as you enter, but then it turns 90 deg and becomes a red dashed line. I thought the red dashed line indicates inverted flight..

In this case, does the dashed line simply indicate that you are in a flat decent, as opposed to being in a vertical down line?

Thanks again guys.. I am loading the plane up right now :-)

[Zeeb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by davensocal
	Hi Chris.. The Aresti shows a dashed vertical line leading into the spin, and lists the spin as positive (white triangle).. So that should be canopy down, because of the dashed line, right? And then spinning with right or left rudder doesn't matter? Or, (Maybe I understand now).. The dahsed line is just showing that you have to push from horiz to enter the maneuver?

Well I think you're looking at entering the maneuver from the wrong direction. Think of positive vs. negative as positive G loading vs. negative G loading on the airframe from the pilot's seat.

The start of a maneuver is always labeled by a black dot and the end by a sold vertical line. You don't enter a positive spin from the upright by pushing either. The spin entry is the subject of much debate so I won't go there, but you just slow the model down in a level flight attitude and enter the spin when it doesn't want to keep flying anymore is the idea. Some models are extremely reluctant to quit flying making spin entries difficult on those....

[davensocal]

Hi Bobby-
I am in So Cal..

I hope to get to some events this year, but I also have three little kids with a combined attention span of about 2.4 seconds.. Last time I took them flying, I turned around and saw one of them hop scotching over the fuselages in the standby section!

I have read, or tried to read a couple of articles on Aresti, and am getting close.. Just that darned dashed line on this maneuver threw me a little..

[davensocal]

Thanks Zeeb..

And I thought when the model doesn't want to fly anymore, we call it "re-kitting"..

[JBenson]

Dave, there is solid black line leading into the manuever. If you look through the other sequences you will notice that all the downlines in possitive spins are drawn with a dotted red line. I woudn't sweat it too much though. How did the practice go?

JB

[Zeeb]

	Quote: Originally Posted by davensocal
	Thanks Zeeb.. And I thought when the model doesn't want to fly anymore, we call it "re-kitting"..

Well that doesn't usually happen, it's usually a case of "dumb thumb" which results in "re-kitting" rather than the model not wanting to fly anymore....

What I'm referring to is that you want to see the model stall and break on a spin entry which is what a full scale will do. But a lot of these GS aerobats just don't wanna "break" when you slow 'em down and that makes entering the spin a bit of a challenge to do it correctly.

[Al Lewis]

So it's not a flat spin at all, just a vertical spin, right?

[wmat7039]

	Quote: Originally Posted by davensocal
	Hi Bill- Thanks.. So, what's up with the dashed line leading into the spin? As you mentioned, it is a solid black line as you enter, but then it turns 90 deg and becomes a red dashed line. I thought the red dashed line indicates inverted flight.. In this case, does the dashed line simply indicate that you are in a flat decent, as opposed to being in a vertical down line? Thanks again guys.. I am loading the plane up right now :-)

Hello there... Just to clarify a couple of things... We all need to remember that the Aresti System was written for full scale aerobatics competition and IMAC has adopted the Aresti system to our scale aerobatics contests.

Matt....Thank you for clearing up the lines, positive/negative in full scale. I deleted my input since it was not correct.
Also...Zeeb...Thank you for your input. I really should have stuck with the BASE figure in Family 1 of the Aresti catalog rather than including the spin, which is added after.


It would be an enlightening experience if you could attend the Basic Judging School that Tim Attaway is putting on over at the AMA convention in California in a few weeks. There is a lot to be learned and it is not only very interesting, but it will also help in obtaining higher scores when you know what the judges are looking for.
Wayne
Chairman
IMAC Sequence Committee

[Judge]

No such thing as a "flat spin" in IMAC. Attitude of the plane while in the spin is not judged. It can be flat or nearly vertical. What counts is if it is autorotating or not. No autorotation is a zero.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wmat7039
	It would be an enlightening experience if you could attend the Basic Judging School that Tim Attaway is putting on over at the AMA convention in California in a few weeks. There is a lot to be learned and it is not only very interesting, but it will also help in obtaining higher scores when you know what the judges are looking for. Wayne Chairman IMAC Sequence Committee

I know I plan on going!!