Rolling Harrier setup

[corey]

I was just wondering if the set up for rolling harrier is much different if not the same as 3D setup
I just dont know if i have too much throws. I have about 50 degrees in both elevator and rudder and have only about 30% of expo. and this is what i use for hovering.
Could someone tell me if this is not good for rolling harrier as im finding it difficult to even get a start on doing one.

[JEFFRO503]

	Quote: Originally Posted by corey
	I was just wondering if the set up for rolling harrier is much different if not the same as 3D setup I just dont know if i have too much throws. I have about 50 degrees in both elevator and rudder and have only about 30% of expo. and this is what i use for hovering. Could someone tell me if this is not good for rolling harrier as im finding it difficult to even get a start on doing one.

Everyones setups are going to be different for sure! Some guys use all their switches for different rates , moves ect..... So you won't get the same answer twice.

For ME anyways , i am using a old 7 channel 7CAP futaba ( i have a futaba 9Z , 2.4 system as well ) , and fly with only low and high rates. I do have my airplane trimmed really well and the CG is setup exactly for how i want the airplane to perform. In a harrier roll , i leave all my rates on high rate....as i do 99% of my flying with these rates. I have just trained my thumbs to be a little easy on the sticks when doing the harrier roll. But then again , every single plane is different! You could fly 10 different 30% SD yak 54's from 10 diffrent owners , and they will ALL harrier roll differently! It also has to do with what the weather is doing in wind speeds and so forth to. You'll find , you need a lot less input on the sticks flying into the wind , then when your flying down wind....get it?

As far as expo goes.....i am just now learning to like expo. I flew for my first year with NO expo , because i like the instant response of the sticks. But since i have been flying a few years now , i realized that i DO NEED expo. reason being is , it takes away some of the sloppy inputs i was putting into my radio. Couldn't do a flip without snapping out of it to save my life. Some guys use way more than i do , but right now , i'm using any where from 40-60% on all my control surfaces. I will probably end up putting in a little more , depnding on how i'm wanting to fly that day. so again....it's up to you.

As long as your aircraft is set up with the balance , CG and throws that you are comfortable with , just practice your harriers rolls up high until you get used to how much input you need to put into the sticks.

I have had some airplanes need almost every bit of throw i had in all four points , and i have had other only needing to barely breath on the sticks to get it to harrier roll.

[Mithrandir]

a tail heavy plane makes it harder IMO because the nose goes skyward too easy and it is awkward to have to pull the nose back down while inverted with up elevator....

A slower roll rate makes it a bit easier... and a SIM!!

[danielph]

I have between 45-50 degrees on my elevator and rudder, with about 35% expo. I prefer a forward CG for all flying. Just as Mithrandir said, if your CG is too far back, it will be pretty akword, and can get pretty squirly. :-)
Have fun, and burn a lot of fuel!

[Mithrandir]

http://media.putfile.com/Comp-Arf-Su...ABA-DigiServos

see how slow gives you time to think for the elevator and rudder.... (That is the best I have been able to do)

The natural tendency for the plane is to roll left... but if you learn left first, it makes learning right rollers harder.... so try to burn in to both directions now with no preference!

[jack01]

It's kindof a personal opinion thing, but here's my $.02 on learning harrier rolls:

1. Start with an airplane that is not tailheavy. I honestly prefer a slightly noseheavy airplane for all 3D, and just having more control throw. Like Mithrandir said, you don't want to ever have to pull the nose back down. I like my planes to pitch towards the ground slightly when I roll inverted.

2. Setup your ailerons so that full stick is what you use for a harrier roll. Increasing pitch/decreasing airspeed slows the roll rate. Decreasing pitch/increasing airspeed increases your roll rate. This really goes a long way towards keeping your roll rate consistant.

3. You also don't want to have too much rudder or elevator or keeping things smooth can get to be a problem. The farther you have to move the stick, the more precise you can be. Just don't cut your throws down to the point where you can't get out of an emergeny. I like to use about 2/3 deflection to maintain a 30 degree pitch angle. You'll likely be a little less on the elevator, and a little more on the rudder. You'll have to adjust your ailerons along with your elevator/rudder at the same time.

4. Expo is a good thing, but not too much. Too much and your inputs can start to get sloppy the farther you move from center. I personally fly on 25% or less on 3D rates. I think my rudder expo is at 10%, and the ailerons are at 20%, and the elevator is 25%.

5. Practice some slow rolls at high speed. Ideally, 2 seconds per roll. Get to the point where you can maintain altitute and direct the airplane in any direction you like without having to think about it. Then, begin to increase the roll rate to 1 second per roll. Once again, get to where you're bored with it. Remember, giving your inputs a little early turns the plane in the opposite direction of the roll. Giving them a little late, turns the airplane in the direction of the roll.

6. Get up high, and try a harrier roll! It will probably be easier to fly into it, then stall the airplane as you roll/slow down. You can start the roll while already in a harrier, but it's harder.

[nesikachad]

For me and I am still trying to figure this out.

If you have access to a sim like G4 here's what I did to get this going.

go to your physics settings under graphics and slow it down from 100% to around 40%. Everything will feel like your flying through pancake syrup.

I ignored the rudder when first starting out. I used the Yak 3D in the sim and then simply told myself "throttle management and down elevator when I see the bottom of the wings. Up elevator when you see the canopy.

It took a while but then it started to work. Slowly I sped things up to 100% and then once I kinda had it I started doing it at the field. It's a little different, but it isn't that far off. I still struggle with the rudder but it is surprising how well a plane will do it with no rudder at all.

When you learn in a vacuum, the solutions aren't always eloquent I guess. . .

[3D-Seth]

I use anywhere from 50-60º of throw on elevator, and anywhere from 45-55º of throw on rudder. About 60% expo too.

I use my high rate aileron as well, which (on my Python) was 45º. I also tend to use a CG more nose heavy than tail heavy.

As far as learning it....PRACTICE! Theres not any other way to learn to do it any easier.

Seth

[Matchless]

Jack and I learned together, so we have somewhat similar thoughts on this.

One counter to a post above- Whatever you do, don't learn it just with elevator!!!!!!! This builds a bad habit from the beginning. Instead practice opposite your normal comfortable rolling direction (much like Mith said) and start slowly. Use all the appropriate inputs from elevator and rudder. Throttle bumping is also not necessary though you'll hear almost every pilot do it at one time or another....

[MadMonkey]

Every person learns differently... but it helps if you have a teacher (which I didn't ). I had trouble getting the rolling harriers right so I first learned them using elevator only, then with rudder only, then putting them together.

Oddly, I learned rolling harrier CIRCLES first, THEN a straight rolling harrier. LOL!

[Mithrandir]

One thing I did with the Sim... (G4 and G4.5)...
Use "Chase" mode... this is where you are behind the plane thru the flight....
and concentrate on doing the rolls without the fuse wobbling or dramatic pitch/yaw deviations... try to hold a constant 40 or 45 degrees on the fuse.....

[jack01]

	Quote: Originally Posted by MadMonkey
	Oddly, I learned rolling harrier CIRCLES first, THEN a straight rolling harrier. LOL!

That's not that odd really... lol. Most people give their inputs either too early or too late, and that makes it go in a circle. Therefore, they started off doing them in an inside or outside circle first. To each his own though!