Wild Hare 88" Edge 540 Build

[pipercub123]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bird
	So...., the cub has a little fight in him after all. Im proud of you little buddy. They forced you to bare your teeth. You have a right to defend your position. Especially when it is challenged. Do you have something else to fly while you wait for parts?

RAWWWWR! I can fly my Raptor 50SE.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Tired Old Man
	No problem. I just find it difficult to sit by and read where people with low knowledge levels complain because (a) they don't yet know what they are doing and (b) because they read something somewhere, do not have first hand knowledge, and don't know what they are talking about. But they go ahead and post as if they know all about everything....... Just to let you know, I was one of the first that tried out the pocket hinges and let W/H know about the potential for problems. Because of that, and a few other people, design changes were made to improve the design before it became a sever issue.

Why do I have low knowledge levels seem so you brought it up? I just followed the manual for the engine, I didn't do the rest. You've had more ARFs than me, so you must know not to follow manuals so closely. I notice that you pull this knowledge card out all too often and it's about time to stop. If anyone asks a question that you think is a beginner question for RC or just giant scale than you flame them for low knowledge and hold it above their heads that you've tested prototype planes and etc. People with real knowledge show people why they're mislead and without criticism or bragging show them the ways.

Jeesh, it's rediculous that this crap is on a build thread.

Now, back on the plane. For the guys who may be hesitant on WH's, they're an awesome price that can't be beat. Just because one may have some flaws doesn't mean they all do! Order up and do a build. Also, the structure on my plane is very strong. The wings are sturdy yet light. The firewall is beefy. The LG mounting area is very nice! The covering is even really nice for an ARF. I saw some wrinkles on some planes from the Aeroworks website, check out their Ultimate photos and you'll see some wrinkles. This doesn't mean all Aeroworks has wrinkles however and perhaps they just didn't iron them out before the shoot. My WH didn't even have any wrinkles in it, except on the hatch. This really does say a lot of WH planes. The fiberglass is very sturdy and of good quality. Be very careful in regards to mounting on the engine and get it done centered, not just on WH's but all. I learned a lesson to always check for yourself as everyone is human and even manuals can have error. The hardest to fix on mine would be the wing gap. Perhaps a balsa shim could be used and some covering applied to hide it. Maybe your's wouldn't be so bad?

One thing for sure is that Tom is concerned or he wouldn't be on here checking out the site and emailing me working on a resolution. Thanks Tom. We'll get things worked out and before long a flight video will be on here.

[Tram]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pipercub123
	There was a mistake at the factory and the lasered in center wasn't centered, but off according to instructions that stated "first batch" were off. Some will luck out and get the corrected versions eventually so watch out for it. I chose to center my engine over the choice of having it off center and using washers to align it. I believe in the DA manual it suggests not using any shims on the stand offs to avoid damage. I agree with their reasoning and noticed that there's right thrust already built in so hopefully it'll be all okay. Test flight will reveal the truth!

Does anyone have a measurement of where the "right" center should be?

IE.. If the wrong one is 5 1/8" from the left (while looking at the firewall) then the correct center should be 5"?

[birdie]

You guys have learned that all things in the Universe are not perfect.
I would like you all to know how kind and generous a person Tom is. He has had to put up with me at his house more than once, and without him, I would not have had the ability to have a larger (yes 88" is larger for me) without him. He and his wife are 2 of the nicest people you will ever meet, and I consider it a privilege knowing them.

I only wish I could have more of his planes as they have been top-notch as has his customer service...

Birdie

[Tired Old Man]

I haven't done the 88" yet but for some reason the factory has noted the engine locator center point about 1/16" too far to the right (when facing) on several kits. Prolly best to use the drill jig included with the kit as a basic guide until the factory elects to put the marks where they have been told to put them. An easy way to hit the right place every time is to locate a 3/8" wood dowel where the engine crankshaft would align with the jig plate. Use some double sided tape on the back of the drill jig so you can stick the jig on the firewall to check cowl centering.

Pipercub,

What you intrepret as a flame is to me just basic common sense when assembling a kit. It irks me when people don't check anything before drilling away. Perhaps I'm too careful or lack the trust in China manufacturers that you have. I've learned, after many kits from many manufacturers, that utopia and reality are a long ways apart. I've got a $1,755.00 Comp Arf that doesn't have a tight wing fit until the wings screws are applied. The stabs are not a tight fit regardless of what you do, but it's still a very nice plane.

W/H Tom,

Let me know if and when that kit comes back and the condition it's in. I don't have an 88" Edge and I would like to see for myself what was wrong with this particular kit.

[Black Bird]

A little inside information and it was also mentioned in one of piper's posts. The kit will not be sent back to W/H. It will remain in pergatory. Somewhere between utopia and reality.

[RTK]

I always align and drill my engine by taping the fuse to a ladder, climb up the other side, set the engine on the firewall, mount cowl, adjust for center, and mark the holes. Apply thrust angle before marking if said firewall is not pre-set.

[Black Bird]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Tired Old Man
	. Perhaps I'm too careful or lack the trust in China manufacturers that you have. I've learned, after many kits from many manufacturers, that utopia and reality are a long ways apart.

According to you, there is no added value by TOM at Wild Hare. Piper's trust along with many others is in TOM, not the manufacturers. There is more to being a business man than unloading and selling arfs. Before a plane is sold, pull it out of the box, dry fit it, and make sure there are no defects. Then if there is any question on the buyers end, the seller already has an idea of the condition of the product. One more quality control step to ensure customer satisfaction.

[Tired Old Man]

Black Bird,

In your post above you don't say so but imply that all distributors should do what you describe. Unfortunately I've found the parts fits with a kit from one of your favorite distributors to be considerably less than they could have been. From the cowl, to the hatch, etc. Then it rolls on into other areas and hardware quality. Same deal, right? I could go on but I think you'll get my point. If you intend to castigate W/H we might need to extend the same requirements to other distributors. Your buds included.

To pull every kit out of the box, unwrap them, inspect, and re-wrap the protective coverings might be desirable from the customers point of view but unrealistic from the sellers side. Then again, if the protective wrapping cannot be reapplied in the same manner and condition as original many customers might get just a little ticked. It might be better in the long run to just take a kit back here and there to replace it. The effort of inspecting each component in every kit would be labor and cost intensive, which would of course be passed on to the customer. That type of QA is supposed to be done at the point of origin but I think we've all learned over the years that it doesn't happen that way.

[pipercub123]

Wing gap has been remeasured with my Dubro bolts in place. The bolts that came in the kit stripped out before they were snugged up. Upon inspection, the threads stripped and I suspect it is due to insufficient thread engagement from a combination of metric bolts and standard blind nuts. Measuring and comparing to the Dubro bolts, the WH bolts are slightly under sized so must be metric or my bolts were just defective. The Dubro bolts fit great and held fine. I wish the WH bolts worked as I liked the thumb wheel idea.

With Dubro bolts in, gap on the left is an 1/8" at tip and travels up to about midway on wing before tapering off. Right wing fits nice and tight and is perfect. That's why I was complaining because it would have been a nice touch if the builders could have gotten the left to match. If the reason is from the incidence, a shim could have been added and blended in. It would have taken a little extra time and is a step that all manufacturers building any brand ARF should try doing.

So that just added to the frustration from the other problems.

My biggest concern is the potential risk of weakening the firewall integrity. How sufficient would the repair be? Will the dowels be just as resistant to compression if not stronger than existing plywood? If the firewall has the chance to become weak from the repair, I'd rather not even risk it. I'm sure if I never let the engine bolts loosen even slightly, even if the dowels are a bit weaker, than I wouldn't have a problem. That's how hole slop develops IMO. Even if it did occur, a doubler could be added to the firewall, but that would result in a large lightening hole through doubler and existing firewall to reduce weight addition. Let me know, I'm looking for a lasting repair, not a temporary fix.

Thanks.

[BTerry]

Hi Pipercub,

If it makes you feel any better you could use oak or maple hardwood dowels for the plugs (these would be FAR stronger than the surrounding plywood, available at Home Depot or Lowes or wherever), but the truth is standard dowels work just fine. When you think about it, the grain of the dowels will run perpendicular to the grain pattern of the plywood. The dowels will not buckle because the surrounding plywood fixes them in place, and the grain of the dowels will strengthen the plywood.

To be honest the firewall is significantly stronger than it needs to be anyway. You will be just fine. I have plugged and redrilled firewalls many, many times when swapping or rotating engines.

I am curious, did you try to fit the wing without the tube in place? Sometimes a wing tube can force a wing out of position slightly.

[RTK]

Fill the extra holes as mentioned, but do not worry about it. I have a similarly sized 50cc plane that has had 3 different engines on it with 3 different patterns. That means 12 different holes, haven't had a problem to date and I have over 100 flights on that plane and never filled a single hole. Some are pretty close too.

[pipercub123]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bird
	A little inside information and it was also mentioned in one of piper's posts. The kit will not be sent back to W/H. It will remain in pergatory. Somewhere between utopia and reality.

Yes, that purgatory will be found in the sky as I force it to submit and absorb the stresses of severe 3D maneuvers such as a long full throttle downline that transistions into a full throttle blender for not being the prettiest plane in the pits! LOL, j/k. I don't want to be picking up balsa confetti.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bird
	According to you, there is no added value by TOM at Wild Hare. Piper's trust along with many others is in TOM, not the manufacturers. There is more to being a business man than unloading and selling arfs. Before a plane is sold, pull it out of the box, dry fit it, and make sure there are no defects. Then if there is any question on the buyers end, the seller already has an idea of the condition of the product. One more quality control step to ensure customer satisfaction.

Black bird, good idea.

	Quote: Originally Posted by Tired Old Man
	Black Bird, Then it rolls on into other areas and hardware quality. Same deal, right? No, hardware should be pretty consistant. Just like those crappy wing bolts I got in my kit. They were garbage too and I'm sure it's typical of WH wing bolts. Why should I have to pay for new bolts when I paid for those crappy bolts. I've never had a wing bolt strip out! If the bolts are crap from the kit, the WH hardware kit should enclose some wing bolts from Dubro. I could go on but I think you'll get my point. No, we need more information to understand your point. If you intend to castigate W/H we might need to extend the same requirements to other distributors. Your buds included. I've had lots of luck with other companies and what brought my luck was true customer service when things went sour! To pull every kit out of the box, unwrap them, inspect, and re-wrap the protective coverings might be desirable from the customers point of view but unrealistic from the sellers side. However, it's no big deal for me to have to find the time to do this myself and than to have to wait for shipping to Tom, and than to once again wait for a new plane that I can no longer get? Then again, if the protective wrapping cannot be reapplied in the same manner and condition as original many customers might get just a little ticked. It doesn't take a genius to wrap it back up! It might be better in the long run to just take a kit back here and there to replace it. Yeah good idea, however Tom has changed his mind about replacing the whole kit. The effort of inspecting each component in every kit would be labor and cost intensive, which would of course be passed on to the customer. I hope it's passed on to the seller when he starts losing business from unhappy customers that share their experience. That type of QA is supposed to be done at the point of origin but I think we've all learned over the years that it doesn't happen that way.

[pipercub123]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BTerry
	To be honest the firewall is significantly stronger than it needs to be anyway. You will be just fine. I have plugged and redrilled firewalls many, many times when swapping or rotating engines. I am curious, did you try to fit the wing without the tube in place? Sometimes a wing tube can force a wing out of position slightly.

Whew, good to hear another successful dowel repair. No, didn't try without the tube but can.

	Quote: Originally Posted by RTK
	Fill the extra holes as mentioned, but do not worry about it. I have a similarly sized 50cc plane that has had 3 different engines on it with 3 different patterns. That means 12 different holes, haven't had a problem to date and I have over 100 flights on that plane and never filled a single hole. Some are pretty close too.

Wow, I just don't ever want to end up having glued in dowels alone holding the engine on. That could be bad. Thanks for the reassurance though.

[pipercub123]

Pics.

[RTK]

	Quote: Originally Posted by pipercub123
	Wow, I just don't ever want to end up having glued in dowels alone holding the engine on. That could be bad. Thanks for the reassurance though.

I always use large fender washer to distribute the area if I use small standoffs anyway and always on the back side for the nuts/bolts too.