FAI F3M / IMAC

[300sflyer]

As I understand, the provisional F3M category has been granted full status by the FAI, to begin next year in 2010. This naturally means that F3M world championships every two years, are not far behind.

What does this mean for the SA/IMAC competitors in the upper classes? Should they start learning the F3M rules and criteria and begin practicing? Where does this all fit in with IMAC or does it at all? Will these two organizations continue to exist totally independent of one another, or will IMAC and F3M somehow blend together?

Many unanswered questions...

[Judge]

My observations from other areas in RC where there are FAI offerings is that FAI attracts a tiny minority of participants.

Soaring has two (2) FAI classes, F3B and F3J, yet virtually nobody in the US participates in either one, although F3J is gaining a bit. Each is offered at the AMA NATS in alternate years and attracts less than 5% of the participants that the "regular" AMA classes attract. And actually, I forgot, there is now also F3K for hand launch. Nobody in the US flies that either.

Pattern flies FAI, but also has 4 other lower classes. At a recent contest out here in SOCAL there were 28 total pilots and only 5 in FAI. Looking back over past results this is pretty typical.

Helicopters have F3C which attracts nobody. I think there are only 3 or 4 helicopter contests outside of the NATS in the US in the first place and only a tiny group, maybe 10 or 12 in the US, fly F3C (FAI).

Pylon racing flies in FAI (F3D), I do not think I have ever even heard of an F3D race in the US. Quarter 40 is the standard for US pylon racing.

So the bottom line is the FAI competition has almost zero impact on what happens in the US. We already have a well established competition structure and FAI is only a sideshow to that. Everywhere else in the world if you want to compete, you fly FAI because there really is not anything else. What is amazing is that despite our dismal participation on a regular basis in FAI in the US we still do very well when it comes to World level competition.

So I suspect that there is no real reason for IMAC to worry too much about FAI. As long as the Basic through Unlimited structure remains intact there will be very little reason to participate in F3M unless a person wants to go to the Worlds and in that case they will practice and do what it takes outside of the "normal" competitive structure.

[sweetpea]

Perfectly put Judge.

The only folks "worrying" about it are your top world pilots who don't compete in IMAC typically anyways (except TAS which isn't IMAC)

[wmat7039]

Can't say I disagree with you at all Judge. Maybe since Pattern flies FAI, they should consider to fly F3M also.
Wayne

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wmat7039
	Can't say I disagree with you at all Judge. Maybe since Pattern flies FAI, they should consider to fly F3M also. Wayne

Not sure why they would. Different planes and the world F3A program is well established. F3A and F3M are fundamentally different pursuits. Both involve flying aerobatics, but beyond that there is little cross over. The minimum span for F3Mis 2.1 meters. The maximum span for F3A is 2 meters.

FWIW, here is some F3M info: http://www.f3m.com/index2.html

Talk about emulating full size, they fly a known, an Unknown, and a pilot designed Free program (and that is not 3D).

And the proposed Known is a very nice sequence, centered and all and still looks to be a good challenge.

[wmat7039]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Judge
	Not sure why they would. Different planes and the world F3A program is well established. F3A and F3M are fundamentally different pursuits. Both involve flying aerobatics, but beyond that there is little cross over. The minimum span for F3Mis 2.1 meters. The maximum span for F3A is 2 meters. FWIW, here is some F3M info: http://www.f3m.com/index2.html Talk about emulating full size, they fly a known, an Unknown, and a pilot designed Free program (and that is not 3D). And the proposed Known is a very nice sequence, centered and all and still looks to be a good challenge.

Yes. Judge...I know about that link.
It does have a roller in it too. I notice that it's 2006/2007...No updates since then. We are already into 2009 contest season.
Wayne

[JVDO]

	Quote: Originally Posted by wmat7039
	Yes. Judge...I know about that link. It does have a roller in it too. I notice that it's 2006/2007...No updates since then. We are already into 2009 contest season. Wayne

Hi,

Thats the website for F3M in Spain, most of the counties in Europe has there own F3M website...
Like said before we fly;

-Know
-Unknown
-Freestyle to music (4min)

Here you can find the sporting code ... with all official rules etc
http://alpha924.server4you.de/FAI/Sp...obatics_09.pdf

In Europe we all fly F3M (only in the UK they fly IMAC)...

Regards
Jens

[Judge]

No idea why the lack of updates. That may not even be an "official" site. I referenced it solely to point out the differences between planes and such.

As interesting as it is, I sincerely doubt it will catch on in the US, just like none of the other FAI classes have really gotten any traction here. But I suspect that if any US pilots decide to compete at the World level that we will do very well if the past results in other areas is any predictor.

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by JVDO
	Hi, Here you can find the sporting code ... with all official rules etc http://alpha924.server4you.de/FAI/Sp...obatics_09.pdf

Thanks for the link. The sequence is pretty amazing. Clearly they are not using the Aresti catalog!!!

[JuanSG]

Hi everybody!

since this year, in Spain we have started flying with IMAC rules, here is the link of the contests: http://www.copacuadrangular.com Also, German Acromasters follows IMAC rules

This year FAI program was done unilaterally by Czech Republic, without asking other countries, and lately is going into a direction we didn't like at all.

Here in Spain we have started to follow the US way in terms of Giant Scale Aerobatics, and last weekend was our first competition (almost 30 contestants).

[Jim Woodward]

As interesting as it is, I sincerely doubt it will catch on in the US, just like none of the other FAI classes have really gotten any traction here. But I suspect that if any US pilots decide to compete at the World level that we will do very well if the past results in other areas is any predictor.[/quote]

Hi Judge - I suspect that it will catch on in the USA. IMAC should move toward offering the F3M class along side the typical IMAC competitions, just like the NSRCA offers F3A along side the typical pattern contest. With F3M will come the FAI rules, which offer "logical" stuff like the 150 poles and 70 degree left and right lines. Pilots that enter this class will already be minded towards "controlling" the plane, so the airspace management is not going to be a problem. Any field that can currently host a pattern contest can therefore host the F3M class without the 'fear' of losing fields.

How big does IMAC want to make the tent? If IMAC wants any future influence in building a F3M USA team, then the obvious thing to do is allow F3M to be flown with FAI rules along side the typical IMAC contests. IMAC is the SIG for scale aerobatics in the USA so I think that the AMA will expect there to be a marriage of two styles at some point. I'm not sure how the AMA would perceive a SIG that does not want to hold a leadership role in hosting or otherwise determining how our pilots are selected for world events in the category the SIG represents.

Offering this class would strike a wonderful balance between the guys that want to fly a "box" and the ones that want to use the ACS criteria (... I'm sorry, how to you apply ACS again.... couldn't resist). However, there seems to be an overwhelming investment in the ACS thing right now so I expect there to be a lot of complaining over it. The rest of the world gets along just with box markers, center lines, and 60 (or now 70 degree lines for IMAC).

Logic will prevail in the end, I'm sure.

Thanks,
Jim

[300sflyer]

I think you are correct Jim. Even the AMA SIG yearly renewal application suggests the same thing.

I also know the same thing is expected of SIGs here in Canada. Each competitive SIG looks after its own FAI team selection process.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/157.pdf

[Jim Woodward]

300sflyer - allowing F3M to fly alongside IMAC classes would be a "win-win" in my view.
Jim

[JVDO]

@Juan, like you said acromasters where using imac rules but there was 0 difference with a normal F3M contest...
Also there where no cross box figures etc like you see in imac...

[Judge]

	Quote: Originally Posted by Jim Woodward
	Hi Judge - I suspect that it will catch on in the USA.

It's ironic isn't it that Spain and Germany are moving from F3M t IMAC, isn't it??

And I will repeat what I said earlier, I think this is interesting and I tend to agree that it would be neat to have offered here in the US, but if it were to get traction it would be the first FAI competition class to do so.

One huge issue I see is the totally different judging standards and sequence design parameters.

IMAC has worked very hard to develop their rules and train judges. This will require a whole new program to train judges for different criteria. F3A and Pattern judging rules are far more similar than IMAC and F3M/F3A are.

It would be very interesting to see the FAI scale requirements enforced here, plus the contest flow will be intersting. 3 sequences total. No throw away rounds. One Known, One Unknown, One opilot designed free program.

I am not trying to say that I thinkit is a bad idea or that it will not work. What I am saying is that it will take a great deal of effort and if the other areas of RC competition are any guide it faces a steep uphill battle.