40% Turbo Laser (scratch built)

[BTerry]

	Quote: Originally Posted by TeamFlatout
	Exactly!!! This is why we say Roger and his counterpart are just full of BS. They keep saying each surface is controlled by some foamy servo and then clearly tell on themselves when a video clearly shows a pull pull system with the boost tab is fixed and assisting the servo on pull pull. Also the other surfaces are rigged the same way. Roger you are full of BS, that is why your POS thread got shutdown. Not for folks flaming at you but because you dont show proof and when you do its the direct opposite. "Oh just believe me, I have 20 years of experience doing this". The system you show in the video will work. I believe that. But thats not what you say about all your applications. Now dont turn into a little girl and call on the mod's to redirect this thread because they'll see you are full of BS. I'm just waiting for this "40% Turbo Laser" to be shutdown. Hey guess what fellas, my real name is Hugh Hefner. I am actually typing this from my laptop in the Grotto. No you cant have any pictures of all these beautiful women down here with me. Just believe me, I am having a ton of fun. I'll talk more about the experience later in the mansion.

...

There are two different methods Roger has shown. One is a BOOST TAB, where the small tab is controlled by a fixed pushrod attached to the stationary surface.

The other method, which he used on the Yak rudder with the small servo, was a CONTROL TAB. In that case the tab is moved directly by a servo and the entire movement of the rudder was powered by airflow.

These are clearly two different methods and ideas. This Laser and the 34% clearly have BOOST TABS.

Just because you don't understand the difference is no excuse for you to be rude.

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BTerry
	... There are two different methods Roger has shown. One is a BOOST TAB, where the small tab is controlled by a fixed pushrod attached to the stationary surface. The other method, which he used on the Yak rudder with the small servo, was a CONTROL TAB. In that case the tab is moved directly by a servo and the entire movement of the rudder was powered by airflow. These are clearly two different methods and ideas. This Laser and the 34% clearly have BOOST TABS. Just because you don't understand the difference is no excuse for you to be rude.

Never once did any of us say we had a foamy servo on each control surface,

I said I had done this on the rudder of one airplane only which was my 35% yak.

Roger

[BTerry]

Exactly. Vous avez bloqué la personne à laquelle j'ai répondu.

edit - apparently some people are "concerned" about the strange new code language I used above when speaking to a French-Canadien on an international forum, so I will translate below: "You have blocked the person to whom I responded". Roger didn't see the comment to which I referred.

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BTerry
	Exactly. Vous avez bloqué la personne à laquelle j'ai répondu.

Oui, plus de distraction

[danielgpr]

Awe, gotta speak in French too, dont worry-
vous etes tous plein de bs et ont un jour glorieux
Dan

[BTerry]

	Quote: Originally Posted by danielgpr
	Awe, gotta speak in French too, dont worry- vous etes tous plein de bs et ont un jour glorieux Dan

Again, this plane will have BOOST TABS, where the additional tab provides only an assist to surface movement. The tabs DO NOT control the movement of the surface, it only ADDS A BOOST to the surface deflection.

Just because YOU (and others) don't understand the underlying concept and are confusing BOOST TABS with CONTROL TABS (where the deflection of the tab itself is driven by the servo, and the surface is free to float) is no reason to say Roger is full of BS. This is the single largest misunderstanding of all of these threads, because people don't understand the distinction. Again, this plane WILL NOT have control tabs, but BOOST TABS. Please read Roger's link regarding the difference. here: http://www.geocities.com/roger_forgues/Boost-tabs.html particularly look at the second page where it talks about the DC-9.

You have a glorious day too.

p.s I edited my post back a few pages with the link for a good control surface loading/servo loading spreadsheet. It is very interesting to read, I hope it helps you. You were looking for something like that.

[danielgpr]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BTerry
	Again, this plane will have BOOST TABS, where the additional tab provides only an assist to surface movement. The tabs DO NOT control the movement of the surface, it only ADDS A BOOST to the surface deflection. Just because YOU (and others) are confusing BOOST TABS with CONTROL TABS is no reason to say Roger is full of BS. This is the single largest misunderstanding of all of these threads, because people don't understand the distinction. Again, this plane WILL NOT have control tabs, but BOOST TABS. Please read Roger's link regarding the difference. here: http://www.geocities.com/roger_forgues/Boost-tabs.html You have a glorious day too. p.s I edited my post back a few pages with the link for a good control surface loading/servo loading spreadsheet. It is very interesting to read, I hope it helps you. You were looking for something like that.

I'm fully aware of the differences now, and have not been cofusing the two, originally I was interested in how they both worked. Then several people wanted to see them in action and were blown off because boost tabs didn't need to be proved to work as it was said. I understand the usage of them was questioned, esspecially in 3D situations and again we all were made aware the Roger doesn't fly 3D, but still no video of operation. The video was asked for not for proof, but rather of them working in flight. I watch the video posted at #151, and see that the plane flys well, but you can't see them working due to distance of the plane.
I'll look over the speadsheet.
Dan

[danielgpr]

And by the way, the comment about being full of it was because there is no need to hide beind writing in French, that would be like me responding in Spansh to you between the rest of us
Dan

[BTerry]

	Quote: Originally Posted by danielgpr
	I'm fully aware of the differences now, and have not been cofusing the two, originally I was interested in how they both worked. Then several people wanted to see them in action and were blown off because boost tabs didn't need to be proved to work as it was said. I understand the usage of them was questioned, esspecially in 3D situations and again we all were made aware the Roger doesn't fly 3D, but still no video of operation. The video was asked for not for proof, but rather of them working in flight. I watch the video posted at #151, and see that the plane flys well, but you can't see them working due to distance of the plane. I'll look over the speadsheet. Dan

Then why continually persecute the messenger? This is a thread about building a large scale model airplane, not an engineering treatise on the subject tabs themselves.

Roger is an excellent craftsman and an electronics wizard, but is not a 3D guru. We are lucky that he has shared and documented as much of his knowledge as he has. These threads may serve to help some other builder down the road.

I have tried to add a bit of an engineering explanation to the thread but have probably just confused everybody more. The truth is, several people have flown a plane with and without the tabs, and have reported a distinct improvement with the tabs. The concept is extremely easy to understand when looking at the linkage configuration, and the closeup video shows how they move.

Again, the VAST majority of 3D maneuvers occur at lower speeds compared to IMAC maneuvers, and require significantly less force to move and hold the surface. The 3D argument is a moot point as weak servos are capable, and strong servos aren't even being tested due to the light loads.

After seeing how they move, do you understand the concept? Any "proof in flight" is entirely subjective and is based on the feelings in the pilot's fingers/thumbs.

[danielgpr]

	Quote: Originally Posted by BTerry
	Then why continually persecute the messenger? This is a thread about building a large scale model airplane, not an engineering treatise on the subject tabs themselves. Roger is an excellent craftsman and an electronics wizard, but is not a 3D guru. We are lucky that he has shared and documented as much of his knowledge as he has. These threads may serve to help some other builder down the road. I have tried to add a bit of an engineering explanation to the thread but have probably just confused everybody more. The truth is, several people have flown a plane with and without the tabs, and have reported a distinct improvement with the tabs. The concept is extremely easy to understand when looking at the linkage configuration, and the closeup video shows how they move. Again, the VAST majority of 3D maneuvers occur at lower speeds compared to IMAC maneuvers, and require significantly less force to move and hold the surface. The 3D argument is a moot point as weak servos are capable, and strong servos aren't even being tested.

Its interesting, awe never mind.
Keep up the great work Roger and I'm sure you're aunterage will keep defending you
I'm out and when I have spare time I may toy with doing some testing of these TABS.
Dan

[BTerry]

In fact, the reason I was attracted to these Laser build threads is because I saw the pictures of the build and thought, "Hey I could do that!".

That in itself is an exciting thing (to me). I love building but don't necessarily want to buy an expensive kit to do it.

[BTerry]

	Quote: Originally Posted by danielgpr
	Its interesting, awe never mind. Keep up the great work Roger and I'm sure you're aunterage will keep defending you I'm out and when I have spare time I may toy with doing some testing of these TABS. Dan

I don't know that i would call myself part of his "entourage" but I do like learning about and understanding new concepts.

And now, back to the Laser...

[jaguar bone]

	Quote: Originally Posted by forgues research
	While waiting for the wing tubes, I started making the tail wire hardware and thought I would show the procedures I am using. First I start off with a 5mm aluminum screw, then follow the pictures. Now I will make the other parts such as the clevis's and will follow with more pictures. Roger

These "how I make it" (rather than buy it) is what makes your build threads so special for me Roger.
Love that hobbyist's heart - and the willingness to share too. No trade secrets and tons of patience and character.

[forgues research]

now I would request that we do not touch the subject on Boost Tabs as such on this thread, please.

I will however bring this back when I am actually building them on these two 40%. but for now , no more please, we are taking away the basis of this thread which is actually building a 40% laser and it would seem we have quite a few people interested in this laser or any laser for that matter.

Merci Brett for all the information so far, well appreciated but help me stay focused on the laser itself

Tomorow, I expect to show more on these links I have started with the aluminum screw , although I have already done one set, now I am making a second set for the second 40% laser.

By the time I finish, I should have received the wing Tubes and will start making the sockets, Stay tuned..

Roger

[forgues research]

	Quote: Originally Posted by jaguar bone
	These "how I make it" (rather than buy it) is what makes your build threads so special for me Roger. Love that hobbyist's heart - and the willingness to share too. No trade secrets and tons of patience and character.

The more you make compliments like these, the more pressure I feel to do even better, but I will try to handle the pressure...

Roger